Trigger Warning: mentions CSA - How does your God handle child abusers?

[Prefernottosay]

My family claims to be religious. There are a number of Catholic priests in the family and the rest of my parents generation particularly but some in my generation too would consider themselves very religious.

I was abused by my eldest brother growing up. My sister was also abused. Her abuse continued from him into adulthood. My brother has never taken any responsibility for his actions.

My father, when he found out about the abuse from my brother he minimised the abuse, dismissed his daughters experiences, he told me that my sister and brother had an affair even though my brother owned up to him that he had abused me. Finally my father said to me that he had made his peace with what my brother had done and he was continuing his relationship on with my brother now and never mentioning it again and I just had to come to terms with that. My mother was equally as self centred in her approach there was absolutely no room for me or my experiences in what had happened. Oh and my father told a mediator we went to that the problem in our family was that I wasn’t a forgiving enough person. The rest of my family have silently and I mean completely silently gone along with that and they have happily allowed me to be completely ostracised from my family. I loved my family but I now have nothing to do with them because of the harm these experiences had on me, my mental health and my children.

How does your God handle these kinds of human failings? What is his response to this? Is this stuff evil? Does he forgive everyone of us for our actions? How does that forgiveness work?

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I also think your family are weaponising forgiveness. At the end of the day it's between you and God, forgiveness is good if it frees you from a burden. It's not supposed to be used to minimise and brush over grave acts of harm for the sake of convenience or respectability.

A heartfelt sympathy is all I can offer. Cannot do anything to replace the evil that you have endured and still enduring.

All I can say for what it's worth, is that God never approves or sanctions evil. It is the evil within ourselves and the whispers of Satan that makes us committ evil deed.

You mentioned your family are Christians, I would say no true Christian who believes in God and Jesus would do such a thing.

We put labels on us to convince us and decieve others around us into thinking something other than who we truly are.

Yes, God can forgive all sins (sins that are committed against God) but, sins committed against another person, that forgiveness has to come from them and sincere repentance. Not just words but with deeds.

No doubt, if you truly believe in God alone, you will be compensated for whatever suffered either in this world or the next.

“Whosoever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”

That is how a true believer in God should live by.

I am so sorry OP. You seem very clear about what has happened, so don't let go of this. Religion can sometimes just be used as pretty words that don't acknowledge the truth. This is fine if you want to live in denial but once we begin to understand that we want more than that fluffy cloud of vagueness there is no going back. I hope you have solid support around you in other people from outside your family

Hi @Worldgonecrazy . Would you mind if I sent you a pm? I'm from a similar background but feel as though my spiritual home is in paganism?

To the OP.

My religion that I was brought up in was Catholicism. So many horrific and horrendous abuses by priests and nuns have come out that I have utterly and totally turned away from them.

In terms of what you're taught in Catholicism, it's that God can forgive (through a priest in a confession box), if and only if you amend your ways and are truly sorry. What I found the most disturbing is that you could abuse a child, go to confession, confess that sin, then do it next week and go back to confession again and the Catholic church teaches that you will be forgiven again.

In terms of my belief? If there is a God, if there is a heaven and a hell, God will be the ultimate judge.

There is both comfort and anger on my part for a thing called The Beatitudes in the bible (blessings).

They are these:

The eight Beatitudes in Matthew:[7][8][9]
3Blessed are the poor in spirit,

for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,

for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,

for they will inherit the Earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

for they will be satisfied.
7Blessed are the merciful,

for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,

for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,

for they will be called the Sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
11Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

What I don't like in there is that it's basically telling everyone who suffers torture, pain, abuse, poverty, sickness etc., that they will get their reward in heaven. I'm not aware of a similar passage which curses those who inflict the pain.

@CwithaQ yes of course.

I'm not aware of a similar passage which curses those who inflict the pain.

@CwithaQ :

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

"Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord."
Romans 12:19

"...since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might..."
2 Thessalonians 1:6-9

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."
Revelation 20:12

"I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless."
Isaiah 13:11

"Woe to the wicked! Disaster is upon them! They will be paid back for what their hands have done."
Isaiah 3:11

"Repay them for their deeds and for their evil work; repay them for what their hands have done and bring back on them what they deserve. Because they have no regard for the deeds of the Lord and what his hands have done, he will tear them down and never build them up again."
Psalm 28:4-5

"The evil deeds of the wicked ensnare them; the cords of their sins hold them fast. For lack of discipline they will die, led astray by their own great folly."
Proverbs 5:23

There are many more similar verses throughout the Bible.

P.S. You don't need a priest or a confession box to ask God for forgiveness.

Joel Kramer is a Biblical Archaeologists. He said this in a video about Joshua's alter, which was recently discovered:

'In Deuteronomy 27:11, it gives the instructions that six tribes of Israel shall stand on Mount Gerizim to bless the people and the other six tribes shall stand on Mount Ebal to pronounce curses.

Mount Ebal is the mountain of curses, that's why Joshua didn't build the alter on Mount Gerizim - you don't need an alter of sacrifice on the mountain of blessings, you need it on the mountain of curses. There was a copy of the Law of Moses at the alter on the mount of curses.

This foreshadowing event helps us understand our own reality.
In Galatians 3:10 it says, "For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." We are on the mount of curses; we don't need an alter of sacrifice somewhere else, we need it where we are. This is why a few verses later, in verse 13, it says, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Jesus came down out of heaven (the place of blessing) to the earth (which is the place of cursing) to offer Himself as a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, so that we would not receive the curses that we do deserve, but instead we would receive the blessings that we don't deserve.'

Sorry, that should read altar not alter!

Hope you are getting some help to work through your trauma, hurt and dissapointment.

If it was me, I'd start the journey of therapy now and this will help you remain strong as you cease contact with all family members you are damaged by.

I don't have a religion, I'd say my god is nature and what goes around comes around eventually. If you're a good person you can find the happiness in life. You can heal from your trauma.

I'm so sorry you and your sister went through that OP. Your family are awful for protecting your abuser, and he is vile for what he did to you and your sister.

LDS here, and as far as I'm aware we're pretty hardline that abuse is wrong. I used to teach the little ones in Sunday school, and had I known about any abuse would have been legally required to report it. (I would have anyway, I adored those kids.)

Quote from Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

That's all children, because they are innocent. The LDS church rejects the concept of original sin.

@MrsGhastlyCrumb I'm sorry for your relative too. I hope she was able to recover, and that she's being supported.

Have you heard of Joyce Meyer? She is an American preacher who was abused by her father from a young age for many years. Her mum found out about it but never did anything to protect her. Joyce talks about it a lot, how it affected her life and how she has come to terms with it.

Her parents weren't Christians but they did come to faith before they died, partly because she (reluctantly) ended up looking after them in their old age and they were so shocked that she had repaid their abuse with kindness and forgiveness.

I think your parents and anyone that condones or minimises it is also an abuser.

Forgiveness is not about allowing someone off the hook or them not being punished by laws and prison. Your brother knew what he was doing and did it anyway. Your father does not have the authority to forgive him - and he should have the responsibility to hold him responsible for his actions and to ensure he is prosecuted and punished by the laws of the land.

this is why many abusers, use the church as an excuse ie the devil made me or apologising means everyone allows them off the hook.

That is not reality.

Forgiveness for me is understanding I was innocent and keeping that person 100% away from me and protecting myself from any more abuse.

Im so sorry that you were abused and the people that were supposed to protect you haven’t and continue not to.

This is the sort of message I read at the time when recovering from domestic abuse - mine was a radio 4 text but similar to this but written from a Christian point of view but same message

medium.com/publishous/do-you-need-to-forgive-your-abuser-to-heal-faf20303be87

It's fine and in fact great to forgive but the consequences should be borne by the perpetrator. He should be made to go to the police, confess and take his punishment. This will not only help him but protect others from being his victim again.