Can God make mistakes?

[DaisyJoy1]

If you're a Christian - of any denomination - do you believe that God can make mistakes by putting people in the wrong bodies? I am thinking specifically of transgender people, obviously.

If you do believe that God can make mistakes, how do you connect this with the rest of your faith?

If you don't believe that God can make mistakes, how can you explain why transgender people feel the way that they do?

I am a Christian and my (atheist) friend asked me about this and I just didn't know how to answer her. Of course I don't believe that God can make mistakes - I KNOW He can't make mistakes. So how does that make sense within the context of the feelings of transgender people?

Was just wondering what other Christian's personal thoughts were about this.

Thanks DaisyJoy 😊 I agree with the points you made about suffering. It's not any easy thing to try to explain, but I don't see God as a malevolent force or a mean kid with a magnifying glass sitting on an anthill. As you say, a lot of suffering is down to humans doing evil of their own free will, then there is Satan's influence - the 'spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms'. Also, spiritual growth requires a degree of suffering e.g. compassion arising from someone who needs caring for. We are living in a fragile world that's waiting for renewal, which I believe will happen in the end, when all things are made new and every wrong put right. I trust that God is love and He has a long term plan that mere humans can't even begin to understand. The Bible says, 'He will wipe away every tear from their eyes...there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away'. Nobody, with faith or without, is immune to suffering while on this earth and it's in no way a reflection of their deeds (unlike the idea of karma). As a Christian I believe that God (in the person of Jesus) took into himself the suffering of the world on the cross and offers salvation to all people.
Sermon over.

If you haven't already DaisyJoy1, there's another thread going which you might want to read/ join in with:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4620865-i-envy-people-who-have-faith?page=12

It really doesn't make any sense at all. Well, maybe if you view it through a theists idea of what an atheist is, but it's dribbling nonsense to an actual atheist...

@HannibalHeyes, this comment has intrigued me. So why would a body which has it's sex programmed right down into it's genetic code feel wrong to someone? What purpose in evolutionary biology does this serve?

@HannibalHeyes

Or are you saying something else in reference to this comment:

ReadtheReviews
I think it makes less sense to be atheist and buy gender ideology. Being IN the wrong body suggests we are not our bodies.

that ReadingtheReviews made? Are you saying that there is no cognitive dissonance between believing we are our bodies but are, at the same time, our bodies? Or are you saying that there is no cognitive dissonance between atheists believing their is a part of us that is distinct and separate from our bodies and not believing in a God or gods?

Sorry that first question should read:

Are you saying that there is no cognitive dissonance between believing we are our bodies but are, at the same time, not our bodies?

I'm so sorry that you won't let yourself see the beauty and importance of that reference!

I'm also sorry that you are lurking, with anger and hatred, on the Philosophy and Religion page on Mumsnet.

I wonder what you're looking for? I hope you find it.

I genuinely wish you all the best. 😊

Thank you! I loved reading this. It's so nicely put!

It is so difficult to explain - especially to an atheist, or someone who has closed themselves off to a relationship with God - a lot of things about faith, but especially this; why bad things happen to people, or in the world in general.

It's hard enough for Christians to understand or come to terms with!

But I think that when you have a relationship with God you learn to trust, and to know that God is always good.

I love what you said here: "I trust that God is love and He has a long term plan that mere humans can't even begin to understand." That's exactly it - this is what I was trying to say but you said it much more beautifully!

Knowing that God is always good means trusting and letting go and accepting that there are things we can't understand yet.

Have you watched The Chosen? (If you haven't, I really recommend it!) There's a moment where Jesus says, "In this world, bones will break, and hearts will break, but in the end, the light will overcome the darkness." 💜

Ooh thank you, I had missed this one! Where I am, it's gone midnight now (oops!) so I'd better get some sleep, but I will definitely check it out tomorrow. Thanks again!😊

Only a theist would assume that everything has to be programmed perfectly.

It's easy for someone who doesn't believe that there's an infallible force controlling everything to understand that things are not as black and white as "thou must be either male or female"...

But the world IS programmed perfectly! What an odd comment.

Ah, thank you for your reply.

I do not necessarily believe everything has to be programmed perfectly, as a theist. We can inherit flaws and develop flaws. Rather, I believe everything has the potential for redemption and healing (through Christ). In terms of a biological more scientific viewpoint, features such as the epigenetic nature of genes give me a kind of material hope for this. In addition the way communities of people, flora and fauna work together to overcome hardships also add to my faith in the possibility of redemption and healing.

This is an interesting the thread. Thanks for CSLewis quote... it is such a good one and so true. How could Jesus make the outrageous claims he did and not be God.
I believe God is GOOD and LOVE. I believe His plan was perfect but within that plan he wanted us to freely love him as our creator and so have mankind the freedom to choose how they live and not have to robotically love Him.
It is the choices that have been made that have led to the imperfections. Even some of the' Acts of God' are affected by how we choose to live.
We have yet to discover all the causes of different illnesses but we know many of them are lifestyle and stress related.
I do also believe that pain and suffering are not totally pointless as I truly believe that God suffers with us, because He loves us, and it is often in the darkest times that were feel him the closest. At my daughter's bedside after an overdose, at my brother's side as he lay dying.... these were times where I felt such a supernatural sense of complete peace that I could never deny the existence of a loving God.
I don't believe he wants or plans babies to be born in pain or children to be suffering horrendous abuse in families. Where there is good there is also evil and this has led to the world being imperfect. We look forward to a time when there will be 'no more tears or pain' and until that time, as Christians, we should do all we can to love and support those around us who are struggling and be Christlike in all we do and say.

This.

Catholic teaching reminds us that our bodies are a gift from the Lord, to be received with gratitude from the Lord. It is not good for a person to assert an identity at odds (with) the body, because we are embodied persons. No one can be “born in the wrong body.”
If a person’s self-perception conflicts with the reality of the body, then the right course of action is to help the person gain a clearer self-perception, one that aligns with the truth. But that can be a complicated task, because of the psychological issues that are often involved.

Don’t believe in a god/gods.

isnt God supposed to be infallible? If it is, then presumably everyone was created as they were deliberately?

@MrsSkylerWhite Don’t believe in a god/gods.

OK, that's your choice.

isnt God supposed to be infallible? If it is, then presumably everyone was created as they were deliberately?

I don't understand why you are asking about the motivation of someone who (in your opinion) doesn't exist ?

I’m not asking that. I’m asking people who do believe whether they think god is infallible? If they do, then no, it can’t make mistakes, can it?

You really believe that we live in a perfect world? I would be interested in your definition of an imperfect one.

Have you actually read any of the thread where Christians have said how they understand this?

@MrsSkylerWhite I’m not asking that. I’m asking people who do believe whether they think god is infallible? If they do, then no, it can’t make mistakes, can it

Why are you interested in something that you don't believe exists? Whatever the answer it won't affect you will it?
It's a bit like me asking about the Tooth Fairy.

I don't understand why you are asking about the motivation of someone who (in your opinion) doesn't exist ?

She isn't, she's asking if people who do believe in God believe that he/she is infallible and therefore everyone is created exactly as they are.

For example I don't believe in God, so my question wouldn't be 'how can a loving god let children be born with painful, terminal diseases that kill them', my question is 'how can people believe that a loving god would let children be born with painful, terminal diseases that kill them'.

@wellhelloitsme

I gave up discussing religion with atheists a long time ago.

Atheists require proof and logic. Religion relies on faith, which is the opposite of that.

So any discussion isn't going to be very productive.

Atheists require proof and logic. Religion relies on faith, which is the opposite of that.

Yes I agree with this.

And fair enough if you don't want to.

@Vincitveritas

I'm curious to know, as a Christian, how you explain natural disasters, birth defects, diseases, disability etc? Are these God's mistakes?

I believe not, neither are they punishments for sin, as some would have us believe.
Not every natural disaster should be seen as a punishment for sin. In fact, God usually allows the world to unfold according to the laws he built into it—miracles are the exception, not the rule. Because we live in a world governed by natural laws, we should start with the presumption that any natural evil, whether personal or communal, is a byproduct of those laws and not a specific punishment for sin.