Spiritual Warfare?

[SomethinStrangeIsGoingOn]

I only learned about this theory during the major lockdown from some evangelists. Just wondering if other walks of Christianity think this goes on to?

Have you ever experienced it do you think?

Say in your spiritual journey to get closer to God, has it ever seemed like each action you made to further your commitment to God, you received a knock back in your real life that gave you difficulty/stress/illness etc?

I feel like it's happening to me as crazy as it seems.

This song by Jarvis Cocker just came into my head as being appropriate to this thread. 🙂

Lyrics.

"From Auschwitz To Ipswich"

"They want our way of life"
Well, they can take mine any time they like
'Cause god knows - I know I ain't living right:
I'm wrong
Oh, I know I'm so wrong

So like the Roman Empire fell away
Let me tell you; we are going the same way
Ah, behold the Decline and Fall
All hold hands with our backs to the wall

It's the end:
Why don't you admit it?
It's the same from Auschwitz to Ipswich
Evil comes
I know from not where
But if you take a look inside yourself -
Maybe you'll find some in there

Not one single soul was saved
I was ordering an Indian takeaway
I was spared whilst others went to an early grave

Oh, got stoned
Yeah, went out and got stoned

Well if your ancestors could see you standing there
They would gaze in wonder at your Frigidaire
They had to fight just to survive
So can't you do something with your life?

It's the end:
Why don't you admit it?
It's the same from Auschwitz to Ipswich
Evil comes
I know from not where
But if you take a look inside yourself -
Maybe you'll find some in there

Here it comes, why don't you embrace it?
You lack the guts needed to face it
Say goodbye to the way you've been living
You never realised you were on the wrong side
And nobody's going to win

"They want our way of life"
Well, they can take mine any time they like

you should be careful about what you watch, read, listen to etc., in case you 'open yourself up' to these evil forces that can enter you without you realising... and then you're in trouble...

This, to me, is about the corrupting effect of certain things. I used to love a good thriller, murder mystery. I found that a full on diet of that kind of book left me pretty depressed. All the characters had motive to kill the victim, that was the point of the plot! I had to dial back the thrillers and add in some fluffy stuff as well.

I am also still scared of water in certain situations from reading Jaws when I was far too young.

I think we absolutely should pay attention to the things we immerse ourselves in, in case they damage us. I'd love to swim in the sea or a busy swimming pool without panicking about what's in the water with me.

Yes, just as propaganda can mould people's perceptions, sensationalist news reports can demonise sectors of the population and violent films / video games can desensitise a person towards violence. There certainly are corrupt influences in society. That much is not wrong. It pays to take heed of this kind of warning.

I get what you're saying about the corrupting effect of certain things, and I think that's true in lots of cases. Violent or overtly sexual films / video games and so on can certainly have an effect on people if they watch too much - and probably certain types of music would fall into that category as well.

Where I think it gets out of hand is people saying their children can't watch 'normal' childrens programmes because they're too 'worldly', or that pop music is bad because the lyrics are not godly....
Just look at the wesbites of some private Christian universities in the US, and they have codes of conduct for their students which include not listening to any non-Christian music and so on.

People use the 'in the world but not of the world' line to justify that sort of thinking, but I think we need to have some awareness of culture, music, books and so on in order to relate to people - it's hard to talk to someone if you've nothing in common with them because you don't know anything about what they watch or read.

As an example, I suspect that had I been a kid when the harry potter books came out, I wouldn't have been allowed to read them - too full of magic and spells and 'occult' stuff which 'we don't believe in', but oddly, the Narnia series was ok (even with that 'magic' in it...), probably because it was a Christian author. On the surface, the HP books may not appear suitable for Christians, but I think if you can appreciate that the magic is fictional, there's a lot more in them than first appears, and relates to Christianity.

@Catinabeanbag, yes, I appreciate what you're saying there. There is certainly a balance to be had. It's like what I talked about upthread concerning looking for demons everywhere resulting in accusing innocent people and alienating many from the church.

Plus it's hypocritical. No one is perfect.

I don't see perfection as something homo sapien or any other animal should strive towards.
Would you judge an elephant or a bird as being less than perfect? It's a strange notion.
The idea of a perfect parent is quite terrifying.

It is important to acknowledge fallibility and mistakes, though. Otherwise there is a risk of being reckless and mistakes are just repeated over and over again. And a mistake is the very opposite a good idea. Doing this is the way we grow and learn.

No striving need be involved. Once a mistake is truly acknowledged as a mistake not many would have an urge to repeat it.

The idea of a perfect parent is quite terrifying.

Why would perfection terrify you?

Seriously?

Using the idea of "perfection" is strange.

Imagine a group of 40 elephants lined up at a watering hole.
Would you say " look at those elephants- not one of them is perfect".
It's silly- and a deeply entrenched christian view.

Elephants are perfectly good at being elephants, with their vagaries, differences- homo sapien is just another animal- perfection is an odd adjective to use.

Seriously? Using the idea of "perfection" is strange. Imagine a group of 40 elephants lined up at a watering hole. Would you say " look at those elephants- not one of them is perfect". It's silly- and a deeply entrenched christian view. Elephants are perfectly good at being elephants, with their vagaries, differences- homo sapien is just another animal- perfection is an odd adjective to use.

According to Christian belief, the word perfection is only truly, absolutely and appropriately applied to one being - God. Not elephants, or people or anything else of this natural world.

Your god is clearly not perfect- he fucked up the world so badly he had to have a great flood and start again.
Biblical writings show god as a wrathful, jealous, petty, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, genocidal killer with anger managagement issues.
If that is your idea of perfection then fill your boots.
I wouldn't have a coffee with the guy.

Again there has to be a balance between acknowledging that no one is perfect and seeking to grow, learn and not repeat past mistakes over and over again.

If we fully and completed accepted imperfection and were completely settled in our acceptance of this it would like be preserving ourselves in aspic. We would never grow and learn. Equally, if we believed perfection was entirely humanly obtainable we would be under a misconception because we can't know all things from our own relatively narrow experience within time and space.

That is entirely your own prerogative. That is not the way I view God though.

That is the nature of god as told through the bible.

That is the nature of god as told through the bible.

That's no where near an holistic enough appreciation of the Bible or personal experience of God to be remotely close as to how I understand God.🤷‍♀️

In matthew 25 41 he sends people to burn in hell fire for eternity just for not believing in him
In ezekiel 5 10 he makes fathers eat their sons
In isaiah 45 7 he admits himself created all evil
In judges he makes someone put his daughter in fire aka a blood sacrifice judges 11 31 kjv and judges 11 36!!!!! Kjv because burning flesh smells good to him exodus 29 25
In matthew 25 41 he sends people to burn in hell fire for eternity just for not believing in him
In ezekiel 5 10 he makes fathers eat their sons
In isaiah 45 7 he admits himself created all evil
Deuteronomy 22:28–29; God’s punishment for the raping of a virgin is to pay her father 50 shekels of silver and marry her for life. The rapist was seen as ruining someone else’s property, not ruining a young girl’s life. Forcing a girl to marry her rapist and have her father accept some money as compensation is disgusting.
2 Samuel 7:11; God, through Nathan, says he is going to punish David’s affair with Bathsheba by making all of David’s wives prostitutes. God making David’s wives prostitutes, despite what His own law said, is not moral.
Leviticus 26:29; God describes how he will punish people by making them eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters. Any God threatening to force people into cannibalism on their family is not moral.
Joshua 6:20–21; God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing “men, women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys”. C’mon. Ruthlessly murdering all the women and children in a city is not moral.
Deuteronomy 2:32–35; God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. Later in chapter 3:3–7, God commands they do the same to the city of Bashan. Killing children isn't moral.
1 Numbers 31:7–18; God decides to not kill everyone this time. This time, He commands the Israelites to kill all the Midianites except the virgins, whom they will take as spoils of war. Killing everyone besides virgins and using them as sex slaves isn’t moral.
Genesis 7:21–23; God drowns the entire population of the earth (except for Noah and his family): men, women, and children, both born and unborn, because they were “evil”. I don’t know how unborn children could be evil, but whatever. Killing the entire population of earth, including innocent babies, is not moral.
Judges 11:30–39; Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God’s favor in killing the Ammonites. Jephthah is crazy for burning his daughter alive and God is crazy for allowing it. Child sacrifice is not moral.
Deuteronomy 21:18–21; God demands we kill disobedient teenagers. Stoning disobedient children to death is not moral.
Exodus 21:20–21, Colossians 3:22–24, Ephesians 6:5, 1 Peter 2:18; God legitimizes slavery by saying it’s okay to own slaves and to beat them. Slaves are told to obey their masters just as they would obey Jesus, even if their masters are harsh. God blatantly supports slavery. Supporting slavery is not moral.

Even the 10 commandments are crap.

@speakout, are you going to quote the whole of the Bible? Because that is the only way to put the bits you have cherry picked into context.

I thought cherry picking the bible was an essential tool for christians.

But you're not a Christian. What you're doing, unfortunately, is picking the unripe cherries from the tree, declaring it bad and attempting to rip it from the ground.

Whether I am a christian or not I cannot escape the effects of it. The church has contributed to the fabric of our society, supports male dominance, responsible for homophobic and racist aspects of the community we live in.

The church has contributed to the fabric of our society, supports male dominance, responsible for homophobic and racist aspects of the community we live in.

The church is full of humans. Secular societies have the same problems. Pagan societies also had and have the same problems just with greater diversity - which is clearly evident from history. It's just a form of tribalism.

I think you're quoting with no context @speakout Which is what extremists of any religion do to justify their actions and their motives.

The bible was written in a time and place that no longer exists. It's been translated from translations of translations. I'm sure there are a fair few fictitious exaggerations and claims woven in amongst the truth for the purpous of scaring readers into submission during the age that it was written, but there is truth within the bible certainly.