Spiritual Warfare?

[SomethinStrangeIsGoingOn]

I only learned about this theory during the major lockdown from some evangelists. Just wondering if other walks of Christianity think this goes on to?

Have you ever experienced it do you think?

Say in your spiritual journey to get closer to God, has it ever seemed like each action you made to further your commitment to God, you received a knock back in your real life that gave you difficulty/stress/illness etc?

I feel like it's happening to me as crazy as it seems.

It's a tricky one. It makes perfect sense if you believe in a spiritual plane, that there are things going on around us that we're not fully aware of.

That said, I very much believe that we are called to live here, by these rules, rather than getting too caught up in what may be going on elsewhere.

Hmm, not sure. I am a Christian and I have had challenges such as you mention in my life but believe my faith has help me overcome them and still enjoy life. I try not to focus too much on the problems and nice I have done my part. (I tell myself this is like swatting flies away.) When did Peter sink during the walking on water account? When he took his eyes of Jesus.

Once I have done my part.

Off!

Sorry, posted too quickly!

Well I've done my research and it's throughout Christianity and Judaism so must be whats happening.

Do you not resent being a war that you didn’t choose to enter?
If God was a parent and he behaved like this, testing his children; giving nice things just to take them away; harming them just check that it didn’t make them stop loving him. Then we would call him abusive, his children would be given therapy to help break his hold over them.
I was a Christian, until I realised that if God exists then he is the most abusive of parents. He had children just so they would worship him! He treats them abominably and still expects to be worshipped. Some of those he treats the worst, can watch him overload others of his children with good things.
If his children question his behaviour then they are hideously punished, forever!
It is all messed up, if God exists then he is a narcissistic madman, why would I worship that?

If you are a Christian, you presumably believe in God and evil. I definitely believe that as I try to get closer to God, it will become more difficult. Even just trying to make time to read my Bible and pray daily becomes like an impossible task, and it should not really be difficult. It is not God testing us but the evil one trying to disrupt us getting closer to God.

But surely God is omnipotent?
None of the bad stuff has to happen!

Sorry, I think my last post is clumsily worded. Yes, there is a spiritual dimension to our struggles but the important thing is we overcome this by focusing on God and not the struggles.

Psalm 46-1
"God is our refuge and strength,
an ever-present help in trouble." (NIV)

John 12:44-45
"44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me." (NIV)

Psalm 14:5-6
"5
But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.
6
You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the Lord is their refuge."(NIV)

Deuteronomy 31:6
"Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you.” (NIV)

Thank you @hihellohihello thank you so much.

@MintyMoocow I know where you're coming from. This is also what I struggle with getting to grips with. I don't think God is testing us but Satan/Evil whatever you want to call it. I struggle with the fact that if God is meant to have all encompassing power why He/She doesn't use it to eradicate evil.

Unless he/she is as only as powerful as the sum of all parts, which includes us?!

You're very welcome, happy to have helped @SomethinStrangeIsGoingOn .🙂

I struggle with the fact that if God is meant to have all encompassing power why He/She doesn't use it to eradicate evil.

I think the following parable gives an explanation to this'd:

Matthew 13
"24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. "(KJV)

"But surely God is omnipotent?
None of the bad stuff has to happen!" - MintyMoocow

In a dynamic universe, it's inevitable that bad things are going to happen, and chains of consequences occur that lead to cycles of destruction and creation... crime, earthquakes, infectious diseases, wars, asteroids, whatever etc.

The point of God's omnipotence is that he's infinitely merciful, rather than necessarily interceding on every little last thing that would lead to a catastrophic or traumatising string of consequences. Imagine if God did intercede on everything that might lead to a bad outcome...

"Nope." <breaks chain of connection between event and outcome>
"Nope." <breaks chain of connection between event and outcome>
"Nope." <br... etc etc

The universe would quickly seize up into a static, meaningless lump of nothingness, with no joy, no wonder, no awe, no beauty, no love. There would be no consciousness. Just preprogrammed robots, with one mode of operation. You up for being an inert, unthinking robot? If you want freewilled dynamic consciousness for yourself, you have to accept it for others as well, even if it clashes paths with you.

God lets the universe cascade out according to the free will of its agents, but his divine love and mercy imbues the cosmos and travels along the pathways carved out by pain and suffering to heal, for those who choose to accept it. People who complain about the absence of God are like those standing outside a friendly, cosy pub on a dark night, complaining that they're lonely, cold and hungry, but refusing to simply walk through the door and find the warm fire, hot soup and a friendly conversation inside. You're standing in your own way. Walk through, and receive.

Oh yeah, the spiritual warfare stuff is big in some Christian circles.
Mostly comes from this in Ephesians 6:
'Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.'

It's why some Christians believe in things like demons / spirit possession and so on and will pray for deliverance from such things. It's why some think that you should be careful about what you watch, read, listen to etc., in case you 'open yourself up' to these evil forces that can enter you without you realising... and then you're in trouble...

It's also why some see bad things happening to Christians as a sign that they're close to God - Satan can't stand to see them being so godly, so he attacks them to make them doubt God / their faith. Also backed up by Peter:
'Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.'

Having grown up in a church with that sort of theology I'm rather familiar with it all...and am of the conclusion that a lot of it is quite harmful.

you should be careful about what you watch, read, listen to etc., in case you 'open yourself up' to these evil forces that can enter you without you realising... and then you're in trouble...

What does that mean exactly?

Having grown up in a church with that sort of theology I'm rather familiar with it all...and am of the conclusion that a lot of it is quite harmful.

I think it can certainly get out of balance. Looking for demons everywhere can take a person's focus away from God! It can lead to all sorts of accusations of innocent people / erroneously exclude people from the church. Better to focus on God in Christ, I believe.

What does that mean exactly?

To me, it is a warning about perpetuating the opposite of what God is about. As Christians we should not be perpetuating hatred or love of money or lies or using other people for our own selfish pleasure. There is an element within society (including some areas within the established church) that would encourage these things.

Surely most people hold these values?
Do you need a book to tell you to help others?

Read CS Lewis 'Screwtape Letters'. It describes really well how Christians who are not close to God or ignore him, are no threat to Satan. It's only when you start living as God intends you to that you are a threat. He's a very famous Christian writer, who also write ' the problem of pain' which may answer some other questions people have asked.

Satan is esssential to the whole christian story.
Without a boogeyman there is no fall, no redemption, no sin, no saviour.

Yoou have to feel sorry for him in a way- someone had to get the part.

Surely most people hold these values?
Do you need a book to tell you to help others?

Why do you think hatred, selfishness and love of money still exists then?

Excellent post, @DogandMog .

To the extent that spiritual warfare is meaningful for me, it's as a metaphor- I don't believe in a literal Satan or other external evil force trying to pull us away from God. Rather, what tempts me to do evil (or not to do good) is my own flawed nature. To the extent that there's a war, it's between me and myself.

If other people find it helpful to see good and evil as external forces fighting over souls, then good luck to them- for me, it feels a bit of a cop out. Then again, I think my conception of God isn't very literal so it would be odd if my conception of Satan were.

You think christians are not selfish? I see plenty christians who are self serving. They seem no more altruistic than the rest of us.

You think christians are not selfish? I see plenty christians who are self serving. They seem no more altruistic than the rest of us.

Didn't say that, if you look at my earlier post 35 minutes ago.