Have been a ‘committed Christian’ but suddenly so disillusioned with it all. Happened to anyone else?

[User0610134049]

Perhaps it’s not that sudden, I don’t know
But having had a very holy-spirity conversion as a teenager in the 90s (think falling over in the spirit type thing) these days I just feel my hearts not in it and j feel very disillusioned and cynical.

I suppose it’s more about the whole popular ‘culture’ of evangelical Christianity than God himself but if I’m truthful I don’t know if He’s real.

I was so into it as a younger person but now looking back am seeing it so differently.

I think part of it is realising how churches I was part of in the past are aligned with the evangelical Right in America and Trump etc.

And I’m so over what feels like manipulation of emotions at big events like new wine.
I’m a musician and music touches people deeply but it’s almost like I can see through it - like they say ‘oh the Holy Spirits moving’ and I’m thinking ‘no you just did a roll on the cymbal’
Sorry I don’t know if I’m making any sense 😆

I’m at a lovely little C of E church now which is a mixed bag but with some evangelical touches and am in a home group with evangelical people. I’m just finding it hard as a lot of things they say I’m rolling my eyes at.

Also stuff like sharing on Facebook things about Ukraine and how God is blessing them and protecting them and on their side.
And just thinking - like God was on our side when we supported the US invasion of Iraq?
How does that work then?

And we were praying for a young man who was very ill after an accident, he improved so there was lots of talk of God answering our prayers and thanking God, and then he deteriorated and died.

Grr I feel awful but it suddenly all just seems so cheesy and contrived to me.

I’d like to take a break from church realty or go to a more traditional service. But here’s the problem - it’s a small church and they rely on me for the music some of the time. There are others but I’m a key part. But I feel fake being up there leading worship songs.
We sing songs by Hillsong, Bethel etc but I’ve been reading about them lately and stuff around money and it’s affected how I feel about the songs.

Sorry for the ramble! Can anyone else relate? I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes but it’s scary 😟

Absolutely - it's why I joined another strand of Christianity (Methodist) as the evangelicals were not liberal enough and some believed all sorts of crap (if you suffer it's because you don't believe enough, no women leaders in one church I went to - they didn't believe in it, undercurrent of racism as too white, no gay marriages)

Come over to us, we're mainstream and liberal (and voted to allow same sex marriages in our churches this year)

The URC are more liberal too if you have them near you

Can totally relate. One option - could you let people know that you won't be able to provide music after end of June (or approx 6 weeks time). Be kind and apologetic but don't explain yourself. Over next 6 weeks, you can do music and explore if you want to attend somewhere else or not and start to break away gradually from church. That should give them time to figure out what to do without you. You do not have to do this at all. You can just go.

It's understandable to be feeling the way you do after developing a new view point.

I think your post will attract a lot of people who not only agree with you but feel very strongly about religion, but plenty of us relate and I think you should just take things a bit at a time to give yourself space to adjust.

You don't owe people anything in being a key musician, so it's fine to step back without feeling guilty. There are times in life when you need to put yourself first and this is one of them.

It isn't healthy for you to stay when you identify so much in the church's structure, running and influence that feels dishonest or toxic to you.

It's a very teen thing to become immersed in a religion, teens are searching for their place in the world and often feel a compulsion to join a cause of some sort - whether that's religion, activitism, politics etc Our needs change as we get older and experience gives us a different world view.

To then 'lose your faith' as you get older can feel destabilising, but don't rush to decide what your new conclusions are anything, just go with how you feel and trust that it'll work out. Because it does.

You may never be 100% clear on what your beliefs are, many people aren't. That's fine, as is a renewed faith later on or finding yourself completely atheist. Whatever you come to believe or not believe, you will find that you will always find something to give you a sense of security, strength or fellowship with others who feel the same way you do. Even if that is simply the knowledge that you can always rely on yourself.

I was always a bit uneasy about my faith, mostly because I got manipulated into it and I could see I had been manipulated but couldn’t really extricate myself and I did believe (sort of.)

I then turned away completely for many years.

Where I stand now is that I have taken the best bits with me. I’m sure some will say this means I am not a true christian but I think I am as I listen to what Jesus said and more or less ignore the rest

At the heart of Christianity is forgiveness and understanding and I take that with me. I don’t judge and I try to be patient and loving and understanding.

I do attend church although not every week with toddler DD and it’s a very ordinary church, not evangelical at all, a few hymns, a nice sermon, toys for the kids, tea and squash at the end. Again I remember some of my evangelical mates from the past would dismiss it as not ‘really’ Christian but I refute that.

You can’t force yourself to feel something you don’t, after all.

I was raised in a more staunch evangelical home, we weren't charasmatic, think hats and very simple music. My parents are still in that world.
I don't go to church at all how, in fact I'm not sure I believe either, I cringe when people talk about God like that, I hate the words that evangelicals use to describe God or any of that stuff.
I wish I didn't feel this way, my children don't go to Sunday school and sometimes I lie awake worrying that they are going to go to hell.
I thought I had a personal relationship with Jesus but sometimes I think it was all emotional baloney, like most religion.
Those America mega churches have filtered here to northern Ireland, but they are full of affairs, abuse, money scams etc. Wouldn't touch any of them with a barge pole. But the judgemental fundamentalist evangelicals aren't much better.

I think most Christians have moments like this in their lives.
I am really interested in what you say re the music as I find modern worship band manipulative to the point where I sometimes wonder if they are taught how to do it!! My personal peeve of continuing to play guitar or keyboard whilst someone is talking or praying really winds me up. We have now left local charismatic church and attend little village church. We are in midst of really interesting Lent course on prayer, including unanswered prayer.
I was chatting to a neice yesterday on a family walk who asked if I had ever had doubts about my faith and I said that I think everyone does at some stage, however, my feeling is that even if the whole thing is made up, I would not want to change anything about how I lived my life. Trying to emulate Jesus and how he lived is surely the best way to improve this planet? Asking yourself what He would do in every situation is a great way to live. I don't think we will ever find a perfect church this side of heaven. Maybe if you are involved in the music you are in a perfect position to ensure current church is not being manipulative in worship though. I think it is great for these sort of issues to be discussed/ voiced. Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus. The rest is just trimmings that humans add!

Bethel and Hillsong are prosperity gospel and false teaching. God does not promise us prosperity because we believe in Him. Quite the opposite in fact. Almost every single one of the disciples died horrible deaths despite their faith. Job lost his children and suffered terribly despite his faith. Please look up the prosperity gospel, it will help you see why you are disillusioned. Look up Matthew 5:10-12.

I would suggest perhaps taking a break from your church for a little while and instead focus on reading your Bible and finding another church whose teaching line up with scripture.

In terms of whether God is real or not, I used to think well, why doesn't He just show He is real? Then I remember that He did this many times in the Bible to Israel and it didn't change anything! Israel still sinned, worshipped false gods and all the rest. Jesus did miracles and He was still crucified. We are not called to know He is real, as much as have faith/believe that He is.

I believe in God. Yet I haven't read my Bible in weeks. I have been muttering half hearted prayers every so often. Lately I have definitely been a lukewarm Christian. It's times like this when we need to read and study His Word. For me personally, I have noticed that when I start slacking like this, life seems a lot harder. We all go through highs and lows with our faith, even the most devout.

So much of what you say you are uncomfortable about is religion and not Christianity.
Religion is just different people’s interpretation of what it means to be Christian. We know people,and institutions run by people are often flawed.

If I were you I would go back to basics.
Read the the gospels- a good commentary by someone like Tom Wright is helpful. Maybe start with the Gospel of Luke.
I hope you find some answers.
www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/629854.Luke_for_Everyone

Doubt is not the opposite of faith. I have a similar story to you and my faith is much stronger now. I now attend a tiny C of E, socially liberal “inclusive church” church. (As in they’ve signed up to the inclusive church statement). Would recommend looking up the Fowlers stages of faith, it really resonated with me. There’s some really “iffy” theology within some worship songs (eg surrounding theories of atonement) and I personally take issue with the leadership of Hillsong, tithing and the way it’s run. I actually audited a few courses at the local theology school and it was really eye opening.

OP I have felt exactly the same way as you and really feel for you. This was exactly me in my early twenties and I know how uprooting it is to feel it’s time to step away from something that’s been so all-consuming.

it’s taken me a long time to settle to my relationship with my faith - in fact full disclosure sometimes I still haven’t as the reason I’ve been drawn to these boards the past few days is struggling with doubt myself and missing the strength of faith I used to have.

But after many years I did find a place I love to be in Quaker meetings which I’ve attended sporadically the last 6 years or so, but enjoy following the teachings of in everyday life no matter how infrequently I can get there. I also love traditional church services as long as I can feel sure it’s inclusive otherwise I just go round and round it in my head - I sometimes attend a beautiful Church of Scotland near us to satisfy my desire for the beautiful old hymns (strangely I don’t miss the modern worship as much even though I was so into it!), as I know the minister is very liberal and inclusive although the church is very traditional in its building and hymns etc.

I wish you all the very best, it’s a tricky time but after trying everything from liberal evangelicals to Unitarian Universalist to reformed I’m happy to have found a kind of place now I can feel I can express my faith and join with others. Even this thread is lovely as it reminded me there’s others just the same as me, but I hope you find what you’re looking for and your journey is ok xx

I was raised in a Catholic family and really tried at university to gain the comfort I saw some of my peers getting from the faith at a time when I myself was struggling a lot. But ultimately it was not for me. That was a journey for me and while more recently I had to go through sacraments with my children to get them into schools (absolute requirement where I live no non faith schools) I don’t have faith left anymore at all.

LikeAnOldFriend not a fan of modern worship either, again feels too emotional at times, intended to whip you into an emotional state, it feels contrived. And don't start me on music playing in the background of prayers, I hate it!!!!!!!
I'd love to have a pure faith again, but I dislike the modern church, whether it be a traditional version or this new, mega churches.
I can't marry any of it up with what Jesus or the apostles intended. In churches here, what feels important is what car you drive or what your job is, I can't wrap my head around it and I don't want to associate with it.
And don't start me on predestination, that's a whole other ballgame!!!!

I've studied Theology in different contexts- both university and church based.
The conclusion I've reached at a personal level is that no one is completely right or has all the answers. As a result I avoid authoritarian churches, where there is an attempt at unified teaching/belief.

I try hard to avoid judgement- though I think it's a natural human tendency- and act out of love.
It can be an uncomfortable place to live, never certain you are right/they are wrong, but you just keep learning more and experiencing God differently.

It's ok to keep seeking, to examine and discard beliefs that don't work anymore. It's ok to challenge- should we be playing Hillsong, given the issues with their theology?

It's also ok to watch and wait. This time of year is full of confusion- Peter promising to never deny Jesus then doing so, falling asleep when asked to watch, Thomas believing only when he sees himself. Mary mistaking Him for a gardener...
It all comes good in the end!

You made me think back OP - was anyone else a Stoneleigh Bible Week teenager? They all seemed genuinely and sincerely into it all, and I think if all Christians were as friendly and open as the ones I knew then, it'd be a different world.

Having said that, though they didn't seem fake to me, I remember acting a few times like I'd been blessed (which meant doing a sort of trust fall down on the floor and lying with your eyes closed for a while) and I wonder now how many others just played along.

Anyway, I dropped religion like a stone as I grew older, and I'll never go back, but still often miss the community and security and feeling of faith.

Thanks everyone, great to hear your perspectives

I think you’re right that perhaps I need to cling on to the things that are original and not manipulated, like the bible as I think a lot of it is wise and good teaching for life.

It’s interesting about the music and thought provoking, it would be so alien for me to be in a church or service and not take an active role in that as it’s something I’ve always done.

It’s complicated by the fact that if I were to step down and come off the rota for a while it would massively impact on my husband who also does it. If we were both to stop, things would be very hard for our little church.

And yes yes to the poster who said about manipulation with the music, I wouldn’t say people are taught to do it in a cynical way as they believe the spirit is prompting them in their playing singing but there are some classics to create the right atmosphere - playing whilst someone talks for example as you say. Or use of pads. Use of the cymbals.

I like the people in my homegroup but they are the most evangelical of the congregation. They want us to do more modern songs. Do more of a block of worship rather than songs spread throughout the service and they’d like the kind of talking whilst playing cheesy chords thing.
I’m happy to serve the church through music, or have been, as I feel it’s something that comes easily to me (not boasting but just how it is) but on the other hand it bugs me how some are not happy with it and feel they need a big band with drums etc to worship
Why? Having a beat makes the songs sound better and helps with emotion but if it’s truly God why do you need drums?

Of course there are others in the church who like a good organ hymn and think the music is too modern so you can’t please everyone 😆

I think perhaps I need to step away from the homegroup WhatsApp chat, that would be a good first step. It’s just too full on.

It’s a shame how I feel about Hillsong and Bethel as there’s no doubt they’re good songs and I enjoy singing them but on a musical level not a spiritual one. And I have come to feel so uncomfortable with the mega church businesses behind them

But it’s good to know others have felt this way.

Random thoughts re the music during prayers etc... I think it can be done cynically, but it isn't necessarily so.

I see it more as a sensory thing- some people chew or doodle while concentrating or listening. Some people need silence. Some need background noise. Providing it helps people enter the contemplative space.

Also, musicians sometimes just want to respond with their hands. I really struggle to worship now when my hands aren't busy with the guitar! I sort of tap and shuffle!

Some people like loud music that thrums through their body, so it drowns out distractions. I hate that and feel invaded/vulnerable because I can't pay attention to my surroundings.

My ideal church service includes a little of everything so everyone gets at least some of what they need.

I think we can tend to get less tolerant of things which don't suit us, as we get older. I know I am! I'm impatient with things that aren't 'just right'.
I do try and model myself on some very generous elders who let my generation do all sorts of things when we got involved in church leadership 20 years ago!
I try not to think that the way I like at the moment is 'right', just that it's what I prefer right now. I used to love worshiping in the big venue at new wine. It would probably not suit me now!

OP I feel similarly uneasy about Hillsong and Bethel. Some of their teaching and ethos feels very off to me and I disagree profoundly with any kind of prosperity, health and wealth type teaching. I have seen signs in Bethel especially that they are moving away from that, with some of their musicians exploring lament and authenticity so much more, which is heartening.

But this is how I see it: I think about the words I am singing, and whether I mean them. I'm sure some of the hymn writers of old had some really difficult beliefs we'd find it hard to respect today. So I am okay with using Hillsong and Bethel stuff because for me it's not about them but about my response to God.

I know what you mean about some hyped up emotion but I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don't see emotion in worship as a bad thing - the psalmists so often worshipped with high emotion and wrote songs of worship for stringed instruments (including cymbals!) - David danced before the Lord, etc. We are creatures of emotion, and I think God meets us in emotion and in our willingness to turn our emotions to worship. However, that can make worship ripe for abuse in certain contexts, and manipulation of emotions is certainly something that is a problem at times. I'm sad that that happens.

I think it's like picklemewalnuts says. We all respond in different ways and that's okay, but it's just as okay to respond in emotion as not. Like every other context, safeguarding must be key and so must care be taken when human emotions are involved.

Here's the thing for me: the holy spirit does work in emotions. The holy spirit works to bring peace and joy, sometimes lament and tears, sometimes anger at injustice, sometimes a speaking out of internalised grief or pain. And all these things can be right, and healing.

I think faith and doubt can co exist, and this is in fact an honest place to live in, the liminal space as it were between the certainty and the ambiguity, the now and the not yet, the pain and the living hope.

I hope you hold on to hope, OP. Whatever humans do - and we so mess things up, right? - God is constant and loves you and holds you.

I’d really recommend the podcasts of I Was A Teenage Fundamentalist. Lots of people struggling with these thoughts and reframing their understanding of life. Lots of love to you. X

Famously, Olympic gold medallist and now sports commentator Jonathan Edwards lost his faith while on a trip for BBC Religious Broadcasting. And his family and wife's family were stacked with vicars.

That must have been a sticky situation, but he says he's happy with his new view of the world. So it's possible to navigate a major change and have things be OK in the end.

Search for what feels right and natural for you, don't try to force anything. Listen to your heart and you'll end up in the right place for you.

I love the Fowlers stages of faith - thanks for posting that.

OP I have come at this from the opposite direction. Never felt I could believe all the details and therefore couldn’t be a Christian. Perhaps I have reached stage 4 as I recently decided the faith I have is good enough and got confirmed.

Quite a full on experience in the Cathedral too but I think the organ and choir were a big part of it.

Now wondering what to do with my faith such as it is - need to find a friendly liberal church with like minded people.

I think it's ok to step away from leading the worship, it might give others a chance to step up in that role then you have others who can relieve you. And just focus on reading the bible, get to know God on a personal level. Sometimes we get carried away with our roles and we miss the real thing. You can have time to visit other churches and hear what they teach. I used to attend a church that sang hillsong type of songs, it was nice but I enjoyed another church that sang hyms and just took time worshiping, which is the one I am attending now. And nowadays lots of churches are online, you can check those out in the time being. Let your husband do what he wants to do, a relationship with God is a personal one and needs to be cultivated.

Sorry I don’t know if I’m making any sense

You are making perfect sense. You've just started to see through all the emotional blackmail stuff which is common to most evangellical churches.

Do you actually believe the theological points which distinguish Evangelicalism from historic Christianity? That salvation is entirely about 'faith' and nothing to do with being a good person and that faith comes entirely from God so you are predestined to be saved or not. This is the basis of the health and wealth stuff and it's fundamental to how Calvinist Christianity was desgned. Do you believe that everyone before for Christ, everyone who has never heard of him and everyone not picked is going to burn?

If you do, I think some URC, Methodism or a less charismatic bit of Anglicanism might suit more. If not then a traditional Christian denomination such as Catholicism, Lutheranism, Orthodox or High Anglican might be worth exploring. Catholic Christianity (in the broad sense) is much more into silences and introspection.

if I’m truthful I don’t know if He’s real

Of course you don't. Anyone who think's they know is lying to themselves or everyone else. In the type of Church you are in now there is huge social to keep up that lie because otherwise you aren't one of the club. Personally I find that sort of thing really unpleasant, but some people love it.

I think the really healthy think would be to take a good length of time away from Church all together and ask yourself whether you really still believe in God. Once you have an honest answer, away from the pressure, you can start to explore what you want to do. 'No' or 'I don't know' are a perfectly good answers.

I also found Fowler's stages of faith helpful.

Also this article:

mudroomblog.com/when-you-feel-like-youre-losing-your-faith/#disqus_thread

I am hooked on this podcast now! Just started listening yesterday and 4 episodes in.. amazing to find so many people with similar experiences and such an interesting conversation. Thank you!