Some ( hopefully respectful), questions for Christians ?

[chattycaterpillar]

Okay, so I am newly pregnant, and I guess this is making me explore faith. I truly believe there is a God or higher power, as the idea the world started from nothing doesn't make sense to me. However, I do have some questions about Christianity. I want to believe, ( I have Christian colleagues who clearly do, and appear to have an amazing sense of peace), but I do have a lot of doubt about Christian doctrine. I guess I'd be too polite to ask these questions in real life, so I'm hoping the religion board can answer:

1. Do Christian's believe the old testament is true ? Because, if so, God's behaviour in trying to make Abraham think he had to knife his only child to death, or flooding and killing the entire planet, ( as in Noah's Ark), doesn't seem that nice at all....

2. Why is belief so important to salvation ? What happenned to the people who lived before Christ was crucified ? How could they possibly have had any chance ?

Even after the crucifixion, there mist have been millions of people living in other continents, ( e.g. Australia), who would never have heard of Christianity and so never have been given a chance as whether to believe or not. What happens to them ?

Surely , nowadays, a child growing up in a Christian home, ( or even in a secular home in a Christian country), would be much more likely to turn to Christianity than a child growing up in a Muslim/ Hindu / Sikh/ Jewish/ Buddhist home in a predominately Muslim/ Hindu/ Sikh/ Jewish Bhuddist country. So if you have an 18 year old from a Christian home in a christian country who dies of leukimia they would go to heaven, but an 18 year old Hindu who has been brought up in a Hindu country, ( India), dies of leukimia on the same day they would go to hell ? Even though the 18 year old had been exposed to Christianity since birth ? That doesn't seem a fair or equal chance to me.

And what about children ? What happens to unbaptised babies or children, who have no say in the matter ? Adults with learning disabilities or serious mental illness, ( e.g schizophrenia), which might make them believe they are deities/ the son of God etc.

And finally, I believe we believe men wrote the bible ? Do they believe God told men what to write exactly ? Because if not, why would Paul's opinions be anymore worthy of weight than any other vicar ?

I hope this doesn't sound rude, I'm generally trying to learn more. Logically, I almost certainly believe there is a God, but struggle with the above >

Any answers at all lol

There is no one "Christian" answer.

However, with regards to people who haven't grown up with knowledge of Christianity, babies, learning difficulties etc, they go to heaven as they have not had knowledge of God.

no answers here, as I had a very similar set of questions (raised Christian) which no one could answer, so I turned my back on it all

Not being able to fully understand how the world/universe started is a lack of scientific knowledge, not a reason for believing in a deity, OP.

Quite aside from the (perfectly reasonable) doubts you've brought up, there is also the total lack of any evidence whatsoever for the existence of any god. Plus the fact that there are all these millions of people who are convinced their god(s) is/arethe only true one(s), even though they only believe in that particular religion because they happened to be born into, for example a religious family in a country which happens to be Christian/Muslim/whatever. Plus all the other religions that have come and gone over the millennia. All made up.

Having a sense of peace is about your attitude and approach to life, it doesn't have to have anything to do with religion.

I'm not sure how one can be 'saved' without belief... that would seem to me to be a bit like not believing in lifeboats, and then wondering why one didn't come along and rescue you when you were drowining.
Or do you mean that God should just save everyone regardless?
In which case there'd be no need for choice, or Christianity as a 'thing' for people to believe IN.

I don't think that God told people exactly what to write in the Bible, no. It's not one book, it's a collection of 66 books. Pauls letters to churches were just that - replies and letters to churches in specific situations or which had asked him specific questions. The psalms were poetry, written in bad times and good and so some are full of praise, others are all 'life is crap, help'.
I would say that the Bible has been inspired by God, or with God, because the writer of the Psalms (for example) had had some experience of and knowledge of God, as God's addressed directly all through the Psalms, and you don't generally write poetry to someone you don't know!

The Bible's not without contradiction and things that seem illogical, but the context and time in which it was written has to be taken into account ( I think). There are those who DO think the Bible is the actual Word of God and has to be taken literally, but (imo) that runs you into problems very quickly.
(There's a really good book on this called The Year of Living Biblically which is really interesting and amusing).

I also reckon that those who've not had a chance to hear about God would go to heaven (not that I believe in heaven as a 'place up there' that we go to). That doesn't seem very fair of a loving God to me.
The view I take of it all is that I'm a Christian because the framework of it makes sense, and that's what I was brought up with in this western nominally Christian country, but were I brought up in Israel or India I could just as easily have been Jewish or Hindu or Sikh. And that's ok with me. Maybe those other religions are just as valid as Christianity and are just (culturally) different ways to God.
(I'm well aware I don't hold particularly 'traditional' Christian views!)

One school of thought is that when Christ died he went down to hell / sort of limbo which is where all those who had died pre-Christ were, so that they could have a chance to hear his message.

It's not something that can be answered in a mumsnet post. I know there are some very interesting mumsnetters with degrees in theology who could post a potted explanation but not me.

You seem to be focusing on the Bible and rules of various religions vs an experience of God. I think we all find our way to worship God, some of us do it through Christianity but I don't rule out other religions being "right" either. There is but one truth and I find it really exciting that we will one day find out more (or not if the Atheists are right then we won't know anything anymore!)

Would you find comparative religion interesting. I was blown away that Christian Jewish and Islamic religions are all the same God but different views on Jesus. Then there are parallels between Hinduism and Christianity.

Personally I don't take the bible literally. I read up on historical accounts of Jesus and the gospels and am persuaded as to the truth of the synoptic gospels. The rest of it I take as man made but God given, used for His purposes over the years to give messages to us all. I think God talks to us in more ways than through the Bible if you just listen.

The old testament is really important as it was holy scripture to Jesus and the early church. What is interesting of how the new testament is foretold in the old and the promise of the old testament is revealed in the new.

Have you ever tried reading through the bible? I listen to Fr mike schmitz bible in a year which is great but very Catholic. I previously got on well with the bible project which is really interesting and helpful. Maybe find a bible podcast that suits you. I liked lectio365, an evangelical project by 247 prayer movement. A really centred calm interesting way to hear bible readings. It's not the same as reading through the whole lot in a year.

I like "Reading the bible again for the first time, taking the bible seriously but not literally" by Marcus bourg. Nick cage makes fun reading too. His bible book "the "badly behaved bible" would be an engaging and relevant read for you. Marcus Bourg is a bit drier.

There are explanations of how everyone who died before Christ or without hearing about Christ are saved but someone with better idea of Christian theology will have to explain that.

Like you I struggled with aspects of Christianity but I prayed on it. Because I still believe in prayer regardless of creed. I got my answer and my faith has grown and become more settled. It is still faith though and a big leap at that. Pray for understanding you might be surprised by the result!

Correction: Nick Page not Nick Cage!

Not "put the bunny back in the box"!, more "the wrong messiah" and "God's dangerous book" (which is meant to be really good btw).

I am a Christian. I did not grow up in a faith based household and began to explore religion when I realised I wanted to marry in church but wasn't sure why.
So I can't answer your questions with any great authority but I can answer with my point of view.
The Bible was written so long ago and has been translated by many different people (men) usually for their own purposes. Meanings can be interpreted in different ways even when we read the same passage.
All Christians believe the Bible is a holy book containing the Word of God, but some of us will take the message of Jesus, to love one another, over any tales of murder and purgatory. Jesus came to save mankind and, with God sending their child they have shown they understand our weaknesses.
Personally I see the Old Testament as a folk tale to try to give humans explanations. I don't 'believe' it as such but I can find useful parts; the 10 Commandments for example.
The New Testament I see as an instruction manual for how I should live my life. I am failing badly, but the examples are laid out for me. I read the New Testament and don't see homosexuality being condemned by Jesus as just one example.
I also believe all major religions worship the same God albeit by different names.
I struggle with the concept of Hell. I know God doesn't make mistakes so no worthy person will be turned away from Heaven- and don't get me started on how I see Heaven, that would be another essay!
So I'm probably not much further in my understanding than you but we are all at different places and that is fine.
I'm lucky to have found a Church where I can express my doubts alongside others. The biggest threat to Christianity is those who state their views dogmatically and believe their interpretations to be more valid than the rest of us.
I'm aware I haven't answered your specific questions but what I am trying to say, no doubt badly, is that I can have faith without knowing all the answers and that faith does bring some level of peace.
When you have a chance, I found it really interesting to do sessions at your local church. People generally do Alpha but I think they may be a bit intense for me and I did one called 'The road to Emmaus'.

Its quite difficult to answer all these questions in a post. Perhaps try reading some books. There are some great Christian authors and publishers. This is just one example. www.10ofthose.com/uk/

Mere Christianty by CS Lewis is incredible at answering a lot of your questions. It changed my life that book

Thanks all, very interesting answers so far.

Another question, is when some ( very nice), Christian colleagues offerred to pray for a professional exam I had coming up. I've also seen other prayers, ( e.g. relief for local, non-fatal flooding, hopes that Mrs. Smith recovers from her standard knee operation etc.

And yet I can't help thinking, do people really believe God is going to answer those prayers ?

Like, why would God answer a prayer hoping X does well in his French GCSE, when he has the other, ( much more serious prayers), r.e. cancer, HIV, War, abuse to answer first ?

Personally, I don't necessarily believe God can intervene, ( and think if he could , some prayer requests would be very low down the list), but I don't get the praying for exam results thing etc with sincerity ?

It is very difficult to answer these questions well in just a few words. I will try, but my answers, being short, will be full of things you can say "but what about X" to. Reading books by people who are much cleverer and more faith-filled than me is definitely the answer!

1. I believe the old and new testaments are true, as in they are not lies. But some of it is poetry, metaphorical, etc. So it doesn't all necessarily have to have actually happened, but it is all useful.

2. I think a better way to look at this might be... Everyone who has been told about Jesus has a choice - to find out more/to reject him/to accept him. If you accept him, and desire forgiveness and want a relationship with him, you can have it. If you choose to ignore him, or reject him, then that's up to you. You've chosen not to have a relationship with him and he's not going to force you. So no, you won't be saved, but that's what you've chosen, so that seems pretty reasonable.
   Those who have not heard of Jesus (babies, remote tribes, people with limited understanding etc) I believe will be judged according to what God knows of their hearts and minds. God is above all merciful. Perhaps he can see what they would have chosen, had they been able (last bit is my idea only, not biblical as far as I know).

3. Yes, men wrote the bible. But I would imagine they did so with the desire to write what God wanted them to! God often lets events run without interfering, but also he sometimes interferes. I think the writing of the Bible is likely one of those times. He would not allow untruths in the book(s) he has given us to guide our lives and learn about him. So men were the tools through which God wrote.

These answers are my thoughts. Other Christians will have different beliefs and ideas. Your best bet is to read mainstream Christian writers initially. Their statements will be backed up by scripture and therefore a lot more authentic than my ramblings

And to try to answer your prayer question - god isn't limited by time, so he isn't working his way through a prayer list and struggling under the weight of it. He is capable of answering all prayers. The bible says to give all your worries to God, so if your exams are worrying you, it is right to pray about them. God answers all prayers, but he does it in his way, not ours. And it might take decades!

@LouisaLovesMice

It is very difficult to answer these questions well in just a few words. I will try, but my answers, being short, will be full of things you can say "but what about X" to. Reading books by people who are much cleverer and more faith-filled than me is definitely the answer!

1. I believe the old and new testaments are true, as in they are not lies. But some of it is poetry, metaphorical, etc. So it doesn't all necessarily have to have actually happened, but it is all useful.

2. I think a better way to look at this might be... Everyone who has been told about Jesus has a choice - to find out more/to reject him/to accept him. If you accept him, and desire forgiveness and want a relationship with him, you can have it. If you choose to ignore him, or reject him, then that's up to you. You've chosen not to have a relationship with him and he's not going to force you. So no, you won't be saved, but that's what you've chosen, so that seems pretty reasonable.
   Those who have not heard of Jesus (babies, remote tribes, people with limited understanding etc) I believe will be judged according to what God knows of their hearts and minds. God is above all merciful. Perhaps he can see what they would have chosen, had they been able (last bit is my idea only, not biblical as far as I know).

3. Yes, men wrote the bible. But I would imagine they did so with the desire to write what God wanted them to! God often lets events run without interfering, but also he sometimes interferes. I think the writing of the Bible is likely one of those times. He would not allow untruths in the book(s) he has given us to guide our lives and learn about him. So men were the tools through which God wrote.

These answers are my thoughts. Other Christians will have different beliefs and ideas. Your best bet is to read mainstream Christian writers initially. Their statements will be backed up by scripture and therefore a lot more authentic than my ramblings

But a Muslim in Pakistan isn't ignoring Jesus. They have been taught their whole life he is an important prophet, but not the son of Gd. Does a Muslim in that situation not deserve to be saved because their understanding of Jesus, ( based entirely on geoulturual trappings), is different to the truth ?

No one has the answers. Not even scholars who have spent their lives studying religion.

These people were great for me when I was at your stage. They don’t mind you asking difficult questions

christianity.org.uk/

I think everyone grapples with those questions and every faith involves some soul searching and finding your own version of the truth to truly immerse yourself into it.

CS Lewis wrote the narnia series to try and explain Christianity to children (having himself previously been an atheist) and the last book (the final battle) gives a lovely illustration for some of the questions you asked (eg there is one God and anyone doing good in any name still has their heart in the right place and goes on to the new Narnia).

I am a Christian from birth and have a deep faith and peace that comes from it but I know it’s not for everyone. I hope you find your peace in whichever path you choose OP- read the Bible! it may be an ancient script but there are some beautiful truths and blessings in it.

Hello, I'd agree with pp about reading some mainstream Christians.
I'd recommend Confronting Christianity by Rebecca McLaughlin as she covers much of what you're asking, plus plenty of other issues.
Tim Keller is very good too - both the Reason for God (which covers similar ground to the above) and Making Sense of God.

I believe that you have to find your own answers. Sorry, this isn't terribly helpful, but you have to find your own route to Faith as a) everybody has their own sticking points that hold them up and b) there isn't always an answer that you will find satisfactory.
FWIW I don't believe that all the Bible comes directly from God. Some of it bears the imprint of the times it was written in. But, even if you aren't a Christian, it can be seen as the result of thousands of years of human beings working out how best to live in this world and prepare for the next. I have read it (apart from Numbers and Chronicles), with the help of the Bible Project on youtube. One of the things that stays with me is the emphasis in the OT on the rights of the widow, the homeless, and the stranger in our midst. Where can you go wrong with that?
So, read the Bible, pray (or take time to meditate) and carry on searching.
Can I suggest that you read psalm 139?

Also, similar question r.e. Baptism .

The Salvation Army, ( who I think are "mainstream,") don't believe in either baptism or communion. Are they considered "real," Christians by the others ?

I don't know any Christians who spend time considering whether other denominations are 'real' Christians. I really don't, it's just not important.

Prayer has 3 possible answers: "yes", "no" and "wait".

Christians aren't praying expecting to change God. I understand my prayer life as changing me.

Having experienced very specific answers to very specific prayers I still don't think that is the reason to "believe" in prayer because I'm also aware that prayers go unanswered.

Prayer helps so I keep at it.

Religions are from God but the church in made up of people and I know for an absolute fact they didn't get it right all the time. That doesn't stop Catholic liturgy being the best way I know to express my gratitude to God for the numerous blessings he heaps on our beautiful world. For someone else that is their own faith. It's all good.

1. Some do, some don’t. Scholars generally consider Genesis (where you’ll find the story of Noah’s ark) to be a poetry book. It’s a way of explaining something unexplainable. Now we have science.
2. There are a number of accepted theories of atonement (plus others). I personally believe in universal salvation.

Yes men wrote the Bible. It is “God breathed” but no, not word for word. The Bible is in a number of languages (some ancient and almost lost) and translated by man into English. Very few current English translations are translated from the original text.

Most prayers aren’t “petitions” or “I wants”. Prayer is about being in the moment with God.

I’d highly recommend seeking out a spiritual director to talk some of these big things through. (your local CofE Diocese can help, I’m in the CofE so it’s my go to but there will be other places). I could write essays on all the things you’ve mentions. In fact, there are books on them.

My mother is a theology teacher and your questions have a great deal to unpack as they point to different strands of Christian thinking. I would read se books about the formal aspects of theology, they're interesting whether or not you're religious. Personally I don't even ask such deep questions. I just like going to church for the bells and smells. And the hymns five me a sense of peace. That's about it.