The Muslim's holy book, al-Qur'an (the recital)

[Memeandmeagain]

Hello everyone.

I am just curious to learn how God (Allah) is described or mentioned in other religious books?

As you know, as an articles of belief, Muslims believe in every single Prophet that God have sent over time to different nations. From Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus (peace be upon them all) to the last and final Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Muslims believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God.

In many places in the Qur'an, God tells us some of his qualities and attributes so that we can comprehend who God is and not rely on just having faith.

Qur'an asks its readers to use knowledge, wisdom and evidence to know and believe in God's existence.

The following verse is an example :-

Meaning in English (Qur'an is only in Arabic, everything else is an interpretation of human translators).

Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence.
Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission?
He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
His Kursi (Throne) extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not.
And He is the Most High, the Most Great.

And in another verse.

He is Allah—there is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him: Knower of the seen and unseen. He is the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful.

He is Allah—there is no god except Him: the King, the Most Holy, the All-Perfect, the Source of Serenity, the Watcher ˹of all˺, the Almighty, the Supreme in Might, the Majestic. Glorified is Allah far above what they associate with Him ˹in worship˺!

He is Allah: the Creator, the Inventor, the Shaper. He ˹alone˺ has the Most Beautiful Names. Whatever is in the heavens and the earth ˹constantly˺ glorifies Him. And He is the Almighty, All-Wise.

Is there anything similar in other religious books?

Sorry for the long post.

Peace.

The countless posters on here who have supported each other to identify the narcissistic traits of their partners, families, abusers and how to protect themselves and their families is proof of that.

I've no issue with people taking themselves out of harms way and protecting their families. I support that. I just don't think you need to enter into cod diagnoses in order to justify these actions. 🤷‍♀️

but then I have to ask you is there really a difference in putting your faith in cod psychology or cod theology? Either way you’re using deductive reasoning and emotion to arrive at a conclusion.

@littlejalapeno

I’ve read this with interest, although the actual manner of discussion feels a bit evangelical and that always puts me off!

I have studied the Abrahamic religions extensively and lived in both a catholic majority and a Muslim majority country, in addition to the U.K. which has Christian values but tolerant of other religions. I do not claim to be anything near an expert or even very knowledgeable and find it interesting to hear opinions and have my mind and heart challenged.

The issue I always see is that religions really attract people with narcissistic personality traits, while demanding its adherents be ever so humble and enabling. It’s always hard to be any kind of leader and retain humility, but even followers can be very self righteous because they see themselves as the true believers and therefore better than everyone else.

It’s this attitude that puts me off religion, however much I love and live the “treat others as you wish to be treated” of Jesus, or respect Muhammad’s (pbuh) wisdom and values. But everybody is too busy saying here’s why my understanding/way is the best, and that doesn’t actually change the situation of the needy or bring peace or any other good things.

I’m sure you could say I’m letting the jinn in my heart win for saying such things. My intention is not to offend or criticise unjustly. We are all flawed and human, a mix of good and bad that helps us understand both. I just wonder if the narcissistic elements put others off too and that’s why the U.K. is often judged as “godless” by those who narcissistically think their way is superior. I would be interested in hearing any Christian or Muslim opinions on whether they think religions empower narcissists while demanding humility and acquiescence.

It is perfectly normal to have very strong feelings or emotions about topics and subjects we hold dear.

I certainly can't speak on behalf of anyone but, I do not feel narcissistic about the religion I adhere to.

Islam is all about giving glad tidings to all those who are looking for answers to questions they have but, cannot seem to find them or not to their satisfaction at least.

Contrary to popular belief, to understand the religon of Islam, you must question it, ask difficult questions, ask questions that no one else can answer because in the Qur'an you will find answers that are not found anywhere else and explained in great detail for those who are sincere and God aware.

The Qur'an is a book or recital like no other in the face of the earth, don't take my biased word for it, test it yourself if you are one of those who are looking for answers.

Qur'an inssists and demands it's readers to go and observe the signs God has placed in the universe and on earth and beneth it. It constantly asks the reader to ponder upon the verses and statements that God have revealed.

Meaning in English:
Then do they not reflect upon the Quran? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction. (Chapter 4:82)

So, Islam is not a blind faith where things are dictated to you, but it challeneges you to question it and recognise the signs for yourselves.

The Qur'an provides evidence for everything that God wants you to witness and ponder upon.

The beginning chapter of the Qur'an which is recited in Arabic in every single prayer that are obligatory and optional begins with the following:-

Meaning in English:

In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
[All] praise is [due] to Allah, Lord of the worlds -
The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful,
Master of the Day of Judgment.
You ˹alone˺ we worship and You ˹alone˺ we ask for help.
Guide us to the straight path -
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favour, not of those who have earned [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

And immediately after that the second chapter begins with:-

Alif, Lam, Meem.
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah.
who believe in the unseen, establish prayer, and donate from what We have provided for them,
And who believe in what has been revealed to you, [O Muḥammad], and what was revealed before you, and of the Hereafter they are certain [in faith].
It is they who are ˹truly˺ guided by their Lord, and it is they who will be successful.
As for those who persist in disbelief, it is the same whether you warn them or not—they will never believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.
They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.
In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.
When they are told, “Do not spread corruption in the land,” they reply, “We are only peace-makers!”
Indeed, it is they who are the corruptors, but they fail to perceive it.

....and it continuues.

Who would be that brave to categorically state this book has no doubt in it?

Is there any such statements, verses in other religions where it asks the readers to vouch for what it claims and provides evidence be it in the universe or on the earth and is scientifically accurate as of today?

Qur'an is not a book of science, but signs for mankind and beyond. Yet, it has scientifcally proven and 100% accurate discoveries made today that was mentioned in the Qur'an nearly 1,500 years ago. How is that possible?

If all the humans on earth disbelieved in God, it would not decrease His Kingdom by nought, nor if everyone believed, would increase by nought. God is independent of His creatures, He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

And I finally sign off with the following verses:

Meaning in English:

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “If ˹all˺ humans and jinn were to come together to produce the equivalent of this Qur'an, they could not produce its equal, no matter how they supported each other.”

And We have truly set forth every ˹kind of˺ lesson for humanity in this Qur'an, yet most people persist in disbelief.

(Chapter 17:88-89)

Peace to all.

but then I have to ask you is there really a difference in putting your faith in cod psychology or cod theology? Either way you’re using deductive reasoning and emotion to arrive at a conclusion

Well, obviously or not, I ,don't see it like that.

Cod theology. I hope hope hope hope I'm not indulging in this. (Might become a new prayer of mine. Sorry, in advance God, of this) but that would be an anathema of my intentions.

Deductive/ or is that a spell check of reductive? See this is why I need God. It's all too much for my intellect. Needless to say, your warnings are ever a consideration and warning but I would challenge anyone to make their way through them. Cod psychology doesn't cut the mustard neither does cod theology thankfully therein there is faith - Holy Ghost Tongues of Fire full on stuff! For Muslims, erm, as far as this thread goes, I suppose unpolluted, original, writings as inspired by God/ Allah.

But pragmatically, I make decisions on the information available. Which includes my Faith.

[quote Uncomplicated]@ mooscow www.fathersloveletter.com/media-center.html[/quote]
Thank you!

Just so that anyone who may be reading and may get the wrong impression of some of the things I have said and quoted from English meaning of the Qur’an. I would like to clarify few things in the hope of greater understanding if I may.

Firstly, thank you everyone who commented and read the thread.

Some may wonder why did I mostly use quotes from the Qur’anic verses? Well, that is because the Qur'an have all the answers to questions human beings could possibly want to know. And had I wrritten something myself, I would have attributed sayings to God that I have no right to do so.

For the benefit of those who might not know. The Qur’an is not edited by any man or being. It has been arranged by God as He Willed, that is the miracle of the Qur'an. That is why it is not like anything else on the face of the earth.

And those who disbelieve say, "Why was the Qur'an not revealed to him (Muhammad) all at once?" Thus [it is] that We may strengthen thereby your heart. And We have spaced it distinctly.

And they do not come to you (O Muhammad) with an argument except that We bring you the truth and the best explanation. (Chapter 25:32-33)

Also, the Qur'an was never revealed in the written form as we have it today. It was and is an oral recital, just like all the other previous scriptures. Neither the old or new testaments were revealed in written form except for the ten commandments, if I’m not mistaken.

There are corrupters out there who are using translations and do not posses an ounce of Qur’anic classic masterful Arabic knowledge to peddle false narratives about the Qur'an such as missing pages, chapters added/removed and all sorts of many other accusation without any demonstrable evidence.

What they fail to realise is that since Qur’an is an oral recital, committed to memory by hundreds if not thousands during the lifetime of the Prophet, how can a missing parchment make any difference whether it was written down or not or eaten by any animal? Do they not have any sense?

For the benefit of those who may not know, when the Qur’an is recited by an Imam (prayer leader) in mosques and halls during loud prayers, even a single letter or word out of place is recognised and corrected by the congregation praying behind him. That is one of the way how Qur’an is protected from corruption if one dared to do it in the first place. There are always checks and balances.

If every single copy of the written Qur'an was to disappear from the face of the earth. The written Qur'an can be brought back as it was with every dot, letter and word in exactly the position by only three Hufaz (Memoriser of the Qur'an) out of millions with the help God. That is another proof and miracle of God's promise that He has revealed it and He will Guard it.

This life is extremely short, know where you came from, what are you doing on earth, where will you go or what will happen. It's far too important to leave it others or hearsay, go and find out. Answers are out there, be content with what your heart and your own intellect tells you. Demand answers and be happy.

It does not make a single bit of difference to a Muslim as we have our own belief in all of God’s Messengers but, hopefully, without disrespecting anyone the questions I would like to know answers to are:

1. Does it actually make any rational or theological sense that God or Creator would send someone, in the case of Christianity, Jesus (peace be upon him) to come to earth and die on the cross for other people's sins?

And the same God or Creator have sent many previous Messengers before without demanding the same?

So, what happens to all those previous nations that came before Jesus (peace be upon him) and did not get a chance to believe in him? what will they say when they will be resurrected on Judgement day? Will they all go to hell? Where's your proof?

In the Qur'an it asks those who falsely say Jesus (peace be upon him) claimed divinity, bring your proof that Jesus (peace be upon him) himself said that in the presence of all the people and it was written down at that time and Jesus (peace be upon him) checked and approved of it?

If you don’t have any verifiable evidence, then that is a tremendous lie against Jesus (peace be upon him), his mother Mary and the Holy Sprit (angel Gabriel).

What if what is mentioned in the Qur’an is right and what you are following is not correct even though authentic news had reached you and when we all are brought up again in Judgement Day, what will you do knowing God clearly states:

Meaning in English:

“Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no Ilah (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilah (God —Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.

Will they not turn with repentance to Allah and ask His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful” (Chapter 5:73-74, Qur’an)

And if Qur’an is wrong, at least we believe in all the Prophets including Jesus (peace be upon him), and God, maybe God will forgive us out of his Mercy.

And finally I will leave you with couple of verses as a remainder (Qur'an is also called a Reminder).

Meaning in English:-

What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will you not then understand? (Chapter 6:32, Qur’an)

Every soul has to taste death. It is on the Day of Judgement that you shall be paid your rewards in full. So, whoever has been kept away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has really succeeded. The worldly life is nothing but an illusionary enjoyment. (Chapter 3:185, Qur’an)

Know well that the life of this world is merely sport and diversion and adornment and an object of your boasting with one another, and a rivalry in wealth and children. Its likeness is that of rain: when it produces vegetation it delights the tillers. But then it withers and you see it turn yellow, and then it crumbles away. In the Hereafter there is (either) grievous chastisement (or) forgiveness from Allah and (His) good pleasure. The life of this world is nothing but delusion. (Chapter 57:20, Qur’an)

Indeed We sent Our Messengers with Clear Signs, and sent down with them the Book and the Balance that people may uphold justice. And We sent down iron, wherein there is awesome power and many benefits for people, so that Allah may know who, without even having seen Him, helps Him and His Messengers. Surely Allah is Most Strong, Most Mighty. (Chapter 57:25, Qur’an)

“And verily, I am indeed forgiving to him who repents, believes (in My Oneness, and associates none in worship with Me) and does righteous good deeds, and then remains constant in doing them (till his death)” (Chapter, 20:82, Qur'an)

Again I wish to apologies if I have hurt anyone’s feelings in course of these discussions, If I have unwittingly then please do forgive me.

O Allah, I seek refuge in You lest I associate anything with You knowingly, and I seek Your forgiveness for what I know not.

Peace to all.

Some may wonder why did I mostly use quotes from the Qur’anic verses? Well, that is because the Qur'an have all the answers to questions human beings could possibly want to know. And had I wrritten something myself, I would have attributed sayings to God that I have no right to do so.

One thing I am wondering now, is that when clerics discuss your religion how do the conversations go? Don't they discuss different interpretations?

We cannot fathom how Trinity works without any disrespecting our Christian brethren.

We aren't supposed to be able to fathom it! That's why it's a mystery. Bishops often used to write a pastoral letter to be read at Masson Trinity Sunday, to prevent priests accidentally preaching heresy!

@glimpsing

Some may wonder why did I mostly use quotes from the Qur’anic verses? Well, that is because the Qur'an have all the answers to questions human beings could possibly want to know. And had I wrritten something myself, I would have attributed sayings to God that I have no right to do so.

One thing I am wondering now, is that when clerics discuss your religion how do the conversations go? Don't they discuss different interpretations?

I am assuming you mean Muslim clerics?

Since all Muslims adhere to the one and only Qur’an, anything in the Qur’an is accepted by all. So, there are no disagreement to do with fundamental belief in God, the Qur’an, Prophets, previous scriptures and the Judgement Day etc.

As the following verse of the Qur'an shows, meaning in English:

"The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and (so have) the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, (saying), "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. (We seek) Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination." (Chapter 2:285)

The only discussion with clerics generally really boils down to Q&A sessions to do with everyday life of a Muslim.

It depends on what do you mean by 'interpretation'?

As mentioned above, theological issues are agreed upon by all branches of mainstream Islam, so there's nothing to interpret.

If you mean interpretation to do with specific ambiguous verses, Well, you cannot stop someone who lacks sound knowledge, understanding and Fiqh (Islamic laws) to interpret verses anyway they want. But, one thing must be made clear, those who are endowed with knowledge will not speculate the meaning of those verses because it is mentioned as such:

God tells us in the Qur'an, meaning in English:

Allah! There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him—the Ever-Living, All-Sustaining.

He has sent down upon you, (O Muhammad), the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel

Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Criterion (i.e., the Qur’an). Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is Exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution.

Indeed, from Allah nothing is hidden in the earth nor in the heaven.

He is the One Who shapes you in the wombs of your mothers as He wills. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him—the Almighty, All-Wise.

He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Muhammad˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are unspecific. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason. (Chapter 3, 2-7).

Hope that is helpful.

To get an understanding of the Quran, a really good one, read Dune. The Hadith that is used to understand the Quran were written by his youngest wife who didn’t have a child - that put her in a really precarious position unless she could prove he took her virginity. Which is why some Islamic scholars believe her age at marriage could have been deliberately misrepresented. Once that clicks, that she was just a woman trying to survive in a tribal and male centric world that wanted to suppress women, some of the inconsistancies between the Quran and Hadith make sense.

@Toddlerteaplease

We cannot fathom how Trinity works without any disrespecting our Christian brethren.

We aren't supposed to be able to fathom it! That's why it's a mystery. Bishops often used to write a pastoral letter to be read at Masson Trinity Sunday, to prevent priests accidentally preaching heresy!

Meaning in English:

Say (unto them O Muhammad), ‘It is He (God) who brought you into being, He who endowed you with hearing, sight, and understanding- what small thanks you give!’ (Chapter 67:23)

Explanation: That is, Allah had made you men, not cattle. You were not meant to follow blindly whatever error and deviation you found prevailing in the world, without considering for a moment whether the way you had adopted was right or wrong. You have not been given these ears that you may refuse to listen to the one who tries to distinguish the right from the wrong for you, and may persist in whatever false notions you already had in your mind.

You have not been given these eyes that you may follow others like the blind and may not bother to see whether the signs scattered around you in the world testified to the unity of God.

Likewise, you have also not been given this knowledge and intelligence that you may give up thinking and understanding to others and may adopt every crooked way that was enforced by somebody in the world, and may not use your own intellect to see whether it was right or wrong.

Allah has blessed you with knowledge and intelligence, sight and hearing, so that you may recognise the truth, but you are being ungrateful to Him in that you are employing these faculties for every other object than the one for which these had been granted.

To get an understanding of the Quran, a really good one, read Dune

The series of Sci-fi books?

@MaHBroon

To get an understanding of the Quran, a really good one, read Dune

The series of Sci-fi books?

Yes. My DH was considering conversion and this is what his Imam recommended. He said converts (and people born into Islam) often misunderstand the historical context behind the Quran and the Hadith. Dune describes some of the challenges really well (if you can suffer through the scifi) and it’s just as relevant to understanding the Bible’s challenges too.

Now I understand.

I hadn’t heard of these books till 3 people asked me to bring them back copies from the UK when I was their recently. I believe Dune is very much of the moment right now and a film has also been made.

I think one of my daughters in law had read all of the series.

Should anyone have a desire or wish to know what is mentioned about Jesus (peace be upon him) in the Qur'an. It is not all of his mentions but only few.

Hope it may bring some understading to those who want to understand where Muslim belief in him is coming from.

Meaning in English:

O Muhammad, these are the "unseen" things, We are revealing to you: you were not present there when the priests of the Temple were casting lots by throwing their pens to decide which of them should be the guardian of Mary: nor were you with them when they were arguing about it. (Qur'an, chapter 3:44)

And remember when the angels said, "O Mary, God sends you the good news of a Command of His: his name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary. He will be highly honored in this world and in the Next World and he will be among those favored by God. He will speak to the people alike when in the cradle and when grown up, and he will be among the righteous." Hearing this, Mary said, "How, O Lord, shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me?" "Thus shall it be," was the answer. God creates whatever He wills. When He decrees a thing, He only says, "Be" and it is. (Continuing their message, the angels added,) "And God will teach him the Book and wisdom, and give him the knowledge of the Torah and the Gospel, and appoint him as His Messenger to the children of Israel." (Qur'an, chapter 3:45-49)

(And when he came as a Messenger to the children of Israel, he said,) "I have come to you with a clear Sign from your Lord: in your very presence, I make the likeness of a bird out of clay and breathe into it and it becomes, by God's Command, a bird. I heal those born blind and the lepers and I bring to life the dead by God's Command: I inform you of what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Surely there is a great Sign for you in all this, if you have a mind to believe. And I have come to confirm those teachings of the Guidance of the Torah which are intact in my time. Lo! I have come with a clear Sign from your Lord; so fear God and obey me. Indeed God is my Lord, and also your Lord; therefore worship Him alone: that is the straight way." (Qur'an, chapter 3:49-51)

But when Jesus felt (persistence in) disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for (the cause of) Allah?" The disciples said, "We are supporters for Allah. We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims (submitting to Him). Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger [i.e., Jesus], so register us among the witnesses (to truth)." (Qur'an, chapter 3:52-53)

And they (i.e., the disbelievers) planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. (Mention) when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify (i.e., free) you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you (in submission to Allah alone) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. (Qur'an, chapter 3:54-55)

As for those who disbelieve, I will subject them to a severe punishment in this life and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers. But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and Allah does not like the wrongdoers. (Qur'an, chapter 3:56-57)

This is what We recite to you, [O Muḥammad], of [Our] verses and the precise (and wise) message (i.e., the Qur’an). Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was. This is the truth from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt. (Qur'an, chapter 3:58-60)

Now, whoever disputes with you ˹O Prophet˺ concerning Jesus after full knowledge has come to you, say, “Come! Let us gather our children and your children, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves—then let us sincerely invoke Allah’s curse upon the liars.” Certainly, this is the true narrative, and there is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Allah. And indeed, Allah ˹alone˺ is the Almighty, All-Wise. (Qur'an, chapter 3:61-62)

If they turn away, then surely Allah has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of the corruptors. Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “O People of the Book! Let us come to common terms: that we will worship none but Allah, associate none with Him, nor take one another as lords instead of Allah.” But if they turn away, then say, “Bear witness that we have submitted ˹to Allah alone˺.”

O People of the Book! Why do you argue about Abraham, while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until long after him? Do you not understand?

Here you are! You disputed about what you have ˹little˺ knowledge of, but why do you now argue about what you have no knowledge of? Allah knows and you do not know.

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim (submitting to Allah). And he was not of the polytheists.

Indeed, the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him (in submission to Allah) and this prophet (i.e., Muḥammad (peace and blessing be upon him) and those who believe (in his message). And Allah is the Ally of the believers.

Some of the People of the Book wish to mislead you ˹believers˺. They mislead none but themselves, yet they fail to perceive it. O People of the Scripture, why do you disbelieve in the verses of Allah1 while you witness (to their truth)?

O People of the Scripture, why do you mix [i.e., confuse] the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know (it)?

(Qur'an, chapter 3:63-71)

Allah know best.