The Muslim's holy book, al-Qur'an (the recital)

[Memeandmeagain]

Hello everyone.

I am just curious to learn how God (Allah) is described or mentioned in other religious books?

As you know, as an articles of belief, Muslims believe in every single Prophet that God have sent over time to different nations. From Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus (peace be upon them all) to the last and final Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

Muslims believe the Qur'an is the literal word of God.

In many places in the Qur'an, God tells us some of his qualities and attributes so that we can comprehend who God is and not rely on just having faith.

Qur'an asks its readers to use knowledge, wisdom and evidence to know and believe in God's existence.

The following verse is an example :-

Meaning in English (Qur'an is only in Arabic, everything else is an interpretation of human translators).

Allah – there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence.
Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep.
To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission?
He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.
His Kursi (Throne) extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not.
And He is the Most High, the Most Great.

And in another verse.

He is Allah—there is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him: Knower of the seen and unseen. He is the Most Compassionate, Most Merciful.

He is Allah—there is no god except Him: the King, the Most Holy, the All-Perfect, the Source of Serenity, the Watcher ˹of all˺, the Almighty, the Supreme in Might, the Majestic. Glorified is Allah far above what they associate with Him ˹in worship˺!

He is Allah: the Creator, the Inventor, the Shaper. He ˹alone˺ has the Most Beautiful Names. Whatever is in the heavens and the earth ˹constantly˺ glorifies Him. And He is the Almighty, All-Wise.

Is there anything similar in other religious books?

Sorry for the long post.

Peace.

Something which I am wondering, @Memeandmeagain, is what in Islam do you believe Jesus' message was? How was it new? And subsequently how was what Muhammad new again? Why do you think God chose to send these prophets?

And also in Islam, how close is it possible to get to God? In Christianity we believe God can live in us? Do Muslims believe this at all?

Thank you for asking, I will try my best to answer as best I can but, I must tell you that I am only a lay person, hence, I always try to refer to the Qur’an for the answer rather than my own interpretation.

What in Islam do you believe Jesus' message was?

I shall quote the English meaning from the Qur’an:-

Remember when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Ruh-ul-Qudus (Gabriel) so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, Al Hikmah (the power of understanding), the Torah and the Gospel; and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'"

And when I (Allah) put in their hearts of the disciples (of Jesus) to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: "We believe. And bear witness that we are Muslims." (Chapter 5:110-111 Qur’an)

And He Allah will teach him (Jesus) the Book and Al Hikmah (the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.), (and) the Torah and the Gospel.

And will make him (Jesus) a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me. Truly! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path."

Then when Jesus came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" The disciples said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (we submit to Allah)."

Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger (Jesus); so write us down among those who bear witness (to the truth, La ilaha ill Allah - none has the right to be worshipped but Allah).

And they (disbelievers) plotted (to kill Jesus), and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners. (Chapter 3:48-54 Qur’an)

How was it new?

So, as you can see from Islamic point of view, Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Jews of that time and did not came with any new laws but, to bring them back to the straight path and make things easier for them.

And subsequently how was what Muhammad new again?

The message from God from the time of Adam (peace be upon him) until the last and final Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon him) remained one and the same, which is to submit to the Will of God and worship Him alone.

Throughout the ages, God revealed portions of the scripture to all the Prophets but, the Qur’an is the final complete and detailed message as there will not be any new Prophets or books revealed until the Judgement day.

"And We have revealed the Book to you which has clear explanation of everything, and a guidance, mercy and good news for those who submit." (Chapter 16:89, Qur’an)

“Shall I then seek a Judge other than Allah? When it is He Who has revealed to you the Book fully detailed?” (Chapter 6:114, Qur’an)

...”This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favour upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion.” (Chapter 5:3, Qur’an)

Why do you think God chose to send these prophets?

God sent Messengers to every nation that ever lived on Earth. By name, 24 Prophets are mentioned in the Qur’an.

The main purpose was to bring people out of darkness into light. Which is to worship God alone and be grateful to Him for all the favours He has bestowed on Men but, Men are ever ungrateful to his Lord.

And We certainly sent Moses with Our signs, [saying], "Bring out your people from darknesses into the light and remind them of the days of Allah." Indeed in that are signs for everyone patient and grateful. (Chapter 14:5, Qur’an)

And [remember] when your Lord proclaimed, 'If you are grateful, I will surely increase you [in favour]; but if you deny, indeed, My punishment is severe.'" (Chapter 14:7, Qur’an)

There are many other reasons but I am being simplistic as possible.

And also in Islam, how close is it possible to get to God?

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Allah, the Almighty, says: 'Whosoever does a good deed, will have (reward) ten times like it or I add more; and whosoever does an evil, will have the punishment like it or I will forgive (him); and whosoever approaches Me by one span, I will approach him by one cubit; and whosoever approaches Me by one cubit, I approach him by one fathom, and whosoever comes to Me walking, I go to him running; and whosoever meets Me with an earth-load of sins without associating anything with Me, I meet him with forgiveness like that".

In Christianity we believe God can live in us?

Do Muslims believe this at all?

No. God is in Heaven, upon his might throne.

Apologies for the very long posts, I did try my best to shorten as much as possible but I have left out so many other details for the sake ofbriefness.

I hope I have provided a little bit of the answers to your questions.

I thought Muslims did believe God was imminent, if not exactly living in people (I don't think Christians believe that either, other than in an "he lives in my heart" kind of way) - tashbih isn't it?
My question if you don't mind would be, is it a problem for modern day Muslims that many will not be first or even second language Arabic speakers, does that place a barrier between them and really understanding the Qur'an? For a long time, the Bible was available just in Latin (not even its original languished!) and the average Joe had to rely on the church to tell him what it meant.

Language, not languished

@Memeandmeagain, thanks for your reply. I see that there are some quite significant differences there.

No. God is in Heaven, upon his might throne.
One thing I have noticed that interests me. In your opening your post you said an English translation of the Qur'an was,

"His Kursi (Throne) extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not."

So would that mean God is present on earth as well as in Heaven? As His throne extends over the earth as well. And could that throne extend over His creation?

(I don't think Christians believe that either, other than in an "he lives in my heart" kind of way) - tashbih isn't it?

? I don't understand why you would think that.

John 6:56
"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."

John 14:20
"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

“ If only we could remain calm and listen to what others have to say even though we may vehemently disagree with some of things then the world would have been a much better place and more understanding.”

I can agree with this OP.

@glimpsing

(I don't think Christians believe that either, other than in an "he lives in my heart" kind of way) - tashbih isn't it?

? I don't understand why you would think that.

John 6:56
"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."

John 14:20
"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

It's not God the Father who dwells in you but the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 3:16 16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

@Uncomplicated, ok. But the Holy Spirit is in perfect unity with God the father. So the message is the same, they are in agreement.

@Drunkpanda

I thought Muslims did believe God was imminent, if not exactly living in people (I don't think Christians believe that either, other than in an "he lives in my heart" kind of way) - tashbih isn't it? My question if you don't mind would be, is it a problem for modern day Muslims that many will not be first or even second language Arabic speakers, does that place a barrier between them and really understanding the Qur'an? For a long time, the Bible was available just in Latin (not even its original languished!) and the average Joe had to rely on the church to tell him what it meant.

I can only speak from personal experience and say that my children who are all first language Arabic speakers and who learned their faith in Arabic from first language Arabic speakers have at times been quite surprised by the ideas/interpretations some of their non Arabic speaking Muslim friends have regarding their faith.

I think the nicene creed is as good an explanation on the trinity as you can get really:

‘I believe in one God,

the Father almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,

the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation

he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,

and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,

he suffered death and was buried,

and rose again on the third day

in accordance with the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory

to judge the living and the dead

and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],

who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.

I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins

and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead

and the life of the world to come. Amen’

I once read someone describing it by saying you should imagine a woman who is a mother, friend, and doctor.

The version of her that carries out each role is different. She wouldn’t rock her patients to sleep or turn to her children about issues in the bedroom… but she is still the same individual whether she is diagnosing patients at work, on a night out with friends, or tucking her children in at night.

@Drunkpanda

I thought Muslims did believe God was imminent, if not exactly living in people (I don't think Christians believe that either, other than in an "he lives in my heart" kind of way) - tashbih isn't it? My question if you don't mind would be, is it a problem for modern day Muslims that many will not be first or even second language Arabic speakers, does that place a barrier between them and really understanding the Qur'an? For a long time, the Bible was available just in Latin (not even its original languished!) and the average Joe had to rely on the church to tell him what it meant.

I think what you probably mean by ' He lives in my heart', is what is called dhikr (remembrance, praise and glorification ) of God using His many names and attributes.

Such as: Subhaan Allah, wa’l-hamdu Lillah, wa laa ilaah ill-Allah, wa Allahu akbar (Glory be to Allah, praise be to Allah, there is no god except Allah, and Allah is Most Great)

It is an act of worship who engages in dhikr to help him remember God much and not become neglectful.

And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? (Qur'an 54:17)

Qur’an itself testifies that it is easy for remembrance for those who sincerely want to remember.

And the proof is there are literally millions of people from the ages of 5 years old to someone in their 90s have memorised the entire Qur'an to memory and every single Muslim must Memorise portion of the Qur'an in order to perform their 5 daily obligatory prayers.

It is true that 80% of Muslims are non Arab which goes to show you don't need to be an Arab to understand and live by the Qur’an.

Memorizing the Holy Quran and understanding what you’ve memorized are two very different things.

A persons understanding of the Holy Quran will only ever be as good as the understanding/interpretation of the person who taught them. Being a native Arabic speaker and having been taught your faith in Arabic will always have an advantage of others who weren’t.

Living by the Holy Quran? By living the 5 pillars of Islam a person is living by the Holy Quran.

It is true that 80% of Muslims are non Arab which goes to show you don't need to be an Arab to understand and live by the Qur’an

A native speaker of any language will usually be more able than others to understand any book written in their language.

And again, from personal experience, some of the ideas my children have come across from other Muslims (whilst studying in the west for eg) have made them wonder just who it as that taught them. Its to the extent that one of my children informed her university she’d not sit through another talk by two people who’d been brought in via the Muslim students association to introduce Islam and answer questions etc from a group of student teachers such was the inaccuracies in what they were saying - all of which was down to poor standard of understanding by the person who’d taught them. My daughter even asked them what language they’d done their learning in and was told by them they’d been taught in their own language after someone who only knew Arabic from the Holy Quran translated for it for them.

Such was the mess they made of the talk that my daughter was then asked to do the next question and answer session after she made her complaint. Not that she did as what she’d just sat through and had to correct was enough for her.

@glimpsing

@Memeandmeagain, thanks for your reply. I see that there are some quite significant differences there.

No. God is in Heaven, upon his might throne.
One thing I have noticed that interests me. In your opening your post you said an English translation of the Qur'an was,

"His Kursi (Throne) extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not."

So would that mean God is present on earth as well as in Heaven? As His throne extends over the earth as well. And could that throne extend over His creation?

@glimpsing

The answer to your question is in the previous verse.

He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills.

We haven't been given any knowledge about His majestic Throne and how it extends over the heavens and the earth, nor is there any benefit of us knowing about it, if there was, surely God would have given us the knowledge about it.

We only have knowledge of what is mentioned in the Qur'an. It is as it befits His Majesty the Most High.

@PeterPomegranate

“ If only we could remain calm and listen to what others have to say even though we may vehemently disagree with some of things then the world would have been a much better place and more understanding.”

I can agree with this OP.

@PeterPomegranate

If only. We can all hope.

@Drunkpanda

I thought Muslims did believe God was imminent, if not exactly living in people (I don't think Christians believe that either, other than in an "he lives in my heart" kind of way) - tashbih isn't it? My question if you don't mind would be, is it a problem for modern day Muslims that many will not be first or even second language Arabic speakers, does that place a barrier between them and really understanding the Qur'an? For a long time, the Bible was available just in Latin (not even its original languished!) and the average Joe had to rely on the church to tell him what it meant.

We digress from the main topic of discussion but, I will try to answer to the best of my ability.

No, it is not a problem for modern day Muslims that great many will not be first or even second language Arabic speakers.

The proof is in the pudding as they saying goes. If it was then you wouldn't have over 1.8 billion people in every single corner of the world who are Muslims.

There are two things you need to know is, learning the standard Arabic languge is not a requirement in understanding the fundamental tenets of Islam and observing it correctly. It is highly beneficial and is encouraged very much.

The Qur'an is in classical Arabic lanague, which is different from modern day standard Arabic and not even Arabs being their mother tongue will fully understand nuances of the Qur'anic classic language without indepth studies with qualified Qur'anic teachers in unversities etc.

But, to be a good Muslim and follow Islam, you need to follow the the Five Pillars, which consist of:

Shahadah: sincerely reciting the Muslim profession of faith
Salat: performing ritual prayers in the proper way five times each day
Zakat: paying an alms (or charity) tax to benefit the poor and the needy on excess wealth above what you need to live on daily at 2.5% yearly.
Sawm: fasting during the month of Ramadan
Hajj: pilgrimage to Makkah

Anything above and beyond is good and takes you more closer to God and will make you concious of God all the time and will not be one of those who are called neglectful in the Qur'an.

End of the day, being Muslim is not about how much Qur'an you can recite or how eloquent speaker you are. But, it's your belief in God with all sincerity and following God's commands to the best of your ability.

There are no middle man in Islam, it's you and God in direction communication. Whatever you need to talk and ask or plead for you do it, at anytime, any place and in any language, though Prophetic supplicatons are better in Arabic if you know it but is not required.

This is what God tells us in the Qur'an, meaning in English:

"Allah does not require of any soul more than what it can afford. All good will be for its own benefit, and all evil will be to its own loss. ˹The believers pray,˺ “Our Lord! Do not punish us if we forget or make a mistake. Our Lord! Do not place a burden on us like the one you placed on those before us. Our Lord! Do not burden us with what we cannot bear. Pardon us, forgive us, and have mercy on us. You are our ˹only˺ Guardian. So grant us victory over the disbelieving people.”
(Chapter 2:286)

I hope that is ok?

As I said, it's not place to judge all those can or cannot understand standard Arabic.

As I said, it's not place to judge all those can or cannot understand standard Arabic

No one is judging. And no one is saying those who learn in Arabic are ‘better’ Muslims than others. However you have demonstrated something I refrained from saying out of respect for you and that is that Muslims themselves can feel a sense of inferiority amongst each other when it comes to whether they have studied the Holy Quran in Arabic or not. It’s generally why they then try at length to convince people that not being a first language Arabic speaker isn’t a problem.

@WeeTattieBogle

Memorizing the Holy Quran and understanding what you’ve memorized are two very different things.

A persons understanding of the Holy Quran will only ever be as good as the understanding/interpretation of the person who taught them. Being a native Arabic speaker and having been taught your faith in Arabic will always have an advantage of others who weren’t.

Living by the Holy Quran? By living the 5 pillars of Islam a person is living by the Holy Quran.

Of course, memorsing and understanding are completely two different things. That is why God have made Islam very easy for all people in all places in all time to understand and act upon it.

As it clearly mentioned, meaning in English:

And We have certainly made the Qur’an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember? (Chapter 54:17 Qur'an)

Knowing how to read and write is not the same as having knowledge, you cannot gain knowledge on your own. God bestows knowledge to whom He Wills out of his Mercy so, that they can teach and warn those who haven't been granted knowledge and not that they become boastful or arrogant.

“It is only those who have knowledge among His slaves that fear Allah” (Chapter 35:28)

It is not for every believer to be an exegesist of the Qur'an, that is why you have Imams and scholars for.

“Allah will exalt in degree those of you who believe, and those who have been granted knowledge” (Chapter, 58:11)

So, as long as someone is following the 5 pillars as much as possible and following other commandments then that is sufficient for them. God know best.

@Memeandmeagain

I’ll leave your thread now as I’ve replied to the question asked and the poster can now take what they want from our replies. Anything else would just be an unnecessary diversion from all of the other posts.

Salam Aleikum

The purpose, afaik, of the Qur'an was to be a direct communication from God to his people. This had happened to some extent with earlier holy books but because they had been translated and interpreted the true, accurate meaning was lost over time.
So, the Qur'an was basically dictated by God and was not to be altered - this would avoid the shortcomings of the other holy books.
This seems a big advantage. The but for me is that the advantage reduces if the majority of people following the religion cannot actually understand the language, and so are relying on translations and interpretations anyway (and ones done by less academic people than "official" translations would be.
That's not to say of course that it stops people following the 5 pillars and being a good Muslim, it doesn't, it's a comment specifically about the Qur'an. Something I am interested in.

@WeeTattieBogle

As I said, it's not place to judge all those can or cannot understand standard Arabic

No one is judging. And no one is saying those who learn in Arabic are ‘better’ Muslims than others. However you have demonstrated something I refrained from saying out of respect for you and that is that Muslims themselves can feel a sense of inferiority amongst each other when it comes to whether they have studied the Holy Quran in Arabic or not. It’s generally why they then try at length to convince people that not being a first language Arabic speaker isn’t a problem.

Thank you and I appreciate what you're saying and I personally would make, if I had the auhtority, learning Arabic compulsory in every Muslim country.

If majority understood the true message of the Qur'an and implemented it in their daily lives, there would be no injustices, poor wouldn't go hungry, the rich couldn't create law for themselves and benefit from it, there would be no war but more understanding and dialgue and the list is endless.

The Qur'an is the solution to all of human problems but, most people don't know that. Before I get hate mails, I'm saying the Qur'an has the solutions to all our problems and not everyone become Muslim!

But, going to back to my previous quotes from the Qur'an, God does what He Wills and He is All Knowlegable.

In my humble opinion the world today we live is in this situation is because ALL the religions are moving away and have moved from their core and fundamental tenets and thus being filled up materialism.

We cannot change the world or anybody else but ourselves and our families.

As Muslims, God have told us in numerous verses that each one of us will be responsible for ourselves.

No one shall bear the burden of another, not father for his son, nor a mother for her daughter. Everyone on that day will have concern how to save themselves from the Great Fire.