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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Belief and Covid

75 replies

Beliefiseverything · 03/04/2020 23:27

There is a lot of fear around Covid understandably. I’m not frightened by the number of deaths because I believe that God gives life and takes life. So if someone is destined to die on a particular day they will die whether it’s of Covid or something else. Have to be accepting of that as hard as it is to face. I’ve struggled when I faced loss of a child but ultimately it was the decision of God so I accepted it.

OP posts:
morecoffeerequired · 05/04/2020 19:13

It's the order of life. Birth and death. Nothing lasts forever. Everything is destined to die.

That's nature, not God. If it is God's will to take the young, the innocent, the people who have gone out of their way to help others, and all too soon, then I want no part of any faith that believes it to be true.

Why would God decide to take the life of an otherwise healthy child anyway? What possible justification could there be?

Parker231 · 05/04/2020 19:25

It’s fine to seek medical help but if they are destined to die it makes no difference.

Parker231 · 05/04/2020 19:27

If it’s that straight forward, my DH can come home from the hospital where he and is colleagues are fighting each day to save lives.

thesnackbitch · 05/04/2020 19:31

@DareToTiger I would like to know too🧐

Parker231 · 05/04/2020 19:39

It’s nothing to do with God if people live or die - it’s science.

Bringonspring · 05/04/2020 19:53

Who is it always god’s fault? Why not Satan? Where there is light there is dark, when there is evil there is good.

Catinabeanbag · 05/04/2020 20:04

Where in the bible does it say that people are destined to die on a predetermining date?

Psalm 139 (one could argue):
'Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be'.

I can sort of see where the OP is coming from (though not sure I entirely agree). We WILL all die at some point - one of the only certainties in life - but the point is we don't know WHEN that will happen. So no, we don't get all fatalistic and 'what's the point if I'm going to die today'.... we live as if we're going to get well into our 80s or whatever, but I guess our belief in God means that IF we were to die today we're (hopefully) ready / not scared.
If that makes sense....

And hell yeah, if I get that ill, I'm going to the hospital/ /gp!! I"m not getting all 'if this is my time, so be it'. I"m not that good a person Grin
Belief in God doesn't mean giving up all common sense / rationality.

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 20:05

I'm what christians would call a "back slider". An ex true believer, who should know better. I've always been a spiritual person, but once I reached my late teens, I started to see how a lot of mainstream religions, churches and particular "christians", were actually rotten to the core, and that religion had been used for a long time, as a way to control the masses (women in particular) through "gods" word.

Lately, I've been thinking a lot about "our mother", who isn't in heaven. Did God have a wife? Was there a Goddess? It turns out that yes, he was, and there were several actually, but they were erased from the narrative.

More and more I think the only things worth worshipping are the earth itself and what it gives us. The trees, waters and food that keep us alive, get little recognition or respect, the big man with the white beard gets all the credit. Surely trees at least should be considered more sacred than any saint, apostle or prophet? I like the thought of "mother nature", and I can feel more spiritual in a bad storm now, amidst all that power and energy, than I ever did in a church with a bible on my lap. Part of me thinks this virus is her revenge.

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 20:09

*he did he was

lazylinguist · 05/04/2020 20:25

I've always been a spiritual person

I always wonder what people actually mean by this. Surely if humans have 'spirit', we all do? Or do you just mean you're a person who believes in stuff that most people don't?

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 20:38

"It's the order of life. Birth and death. Nothing lasts forever. Everything is destined to die."

^This. Yes it's nature, and death is natural. Just like going to sleep but never waking up. The old have/has to make way for the new. That's what I tell myself at least.

The thought of my own death terrifies me tbh though. The idea of my consciousness being snuffed out like a candle. The only more terrible thought is thinking about ds passing, which I try to never do. I just hope I live long enough that when it comes, I'm more mentally prepared/ready for it, and it's more a relief than anything. My gran always said if got to three score years and ten, she'd be happy, so in my head if someone dies younger than about 60, it seems like more of a tragedy/premature.

noego · 05/04/2020 20:52

Is this the same god that loves all living things, including corona virus 19, which is in itself a living thing. As a living thing it doesn't want to kill you it just needs a habitat to survive, unfortunately we are not conditioned to live with it like a pangolin or bat.
So how does god work this out then? It lets the virus live and the expense of human life? It lets humans kill 70 billion animals a year to feed the 7 billion humans. Why is it that human life is seen as more important than any other life? Is that a religious thing?

ProfessorHasturLaVista · 05/04/2020 21:03

Well, all the Archbishops in the UK have reiterated that Catholic Churches must remain closed and have removed the requirement for Holy Communion during Holy Week (and beyond as necessary). So it’s not all down to God, there’s an obligation to observe scientific knowledge too.

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 21:07

When I say I'm spiritual, I mean that I really wanted to believe in God, and I do still think there's a higher force/power/consciousness out there, that we don't understand. Maybe not a creator, but something. I feel it when I look at the stars on a cloudless night, when lightening strikes, when I see the sea heaving on a bad day. It makes me feel small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Sorry, it's hard to put into words. I'm open to the idea "woo" experiences could be real, and aren't always fakes/lies/someones imagination run wild.

I use tarot cards a lot, and they defy the laws of probability in a very odd way. I'm not saying I think demons are stacking the deck while my back's turned or anything, just that having used them for so long, I can see that they often defy logic, in a way that I probably wouldn't believe had I not seen it myself.

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 21:19

noego

That's an interesting line of thought 🤔

AutumnRose1 · 05/04/2020 21:55

Dame

If you do readings, I’ll send you a virtual champagne Grin

Parker231 · 05/04/2020 22:01

edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/04/04/ohio-church-service-covid-19-pandemic-tuchman-pkg-ac360-vpx.cnn

Total loss of common sense and understanding of basic science.

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 22:50

You'd think that church would take heed of what Leviticus 13 says about infectious disease control and quarantine, "the priest is to isolate the affected person for seven days". "As long as they have the disease they remain unclean. They must live alone; outside the camp" etc.

And there's Isaiah 26:20, "Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by". And the passover story, when God ordered the Israelites to go home and mark their doors, when he unleashed the angel of death on Egypt.

If humans in ancient times grasped the concept, there's no excuse for modern, educated humans?

LastTrainEast · 05/04/2020 23:02

Beliefiseverything your claim has all kinds of implications that you have not thought through. And that is why faith is a bad thing. It's instead of thinking things through.

If you are right and tonight is not my time to die I can walk on the motorway in complete safety. I will not even be endangering anyone else as no one can die in an accident if it's not their time. Even if I cause 50 cars to crash no one will be killed who wasn't going to.

If I were there would you be willing to take a walk with me to test it out? :)

Eckhart · 05/04/2020 23:11

@Beliefiseverything Why did you post? What did you want to get out of it? Usually people post because they have a question or don't feel clear about something, but you seem to have posted to make a statement.

LilacTree1 · 05/04/2020 23:16

If Belief wanted to make a statement, that’s okay with me, it’s a discussion board. I expect she wondered if other people felt like her.

Like I said, I don’t believe in god but discussion seems fair. If I believed in all powerful god, I’d think the earth fighting back might be part of a plan.

LilacTree1 · 05/04/2020 23:17

“ If you are right and tonight is not my time to die I can walk on the motorway in complete safety”

Tonight you probably could 😂

DameHannahRelf · 05/04/2020 23:31

@AutumnRose1 I tried to pm you but I couldn't?

cabbageking · 06/04/2020 00:30

Why are there instructions in the holy books about keeping clean both physically and spiritually, avoiding certain foods, instructions about what is clean and unclean, about where latrines should be built, the best day to be circumcised, keeping your home safe, avoiding dead bodies etc if it makes no difference. The bible talks about being proactive and keeping safe. It says to follow the law of the land unless it goes against God's law. It tells us there is a difference between being prepared and not being prepared. There are narratives about good choices and poor choices and consequences of these.
Whether you believe it to be true or not. It stresses life is sacred and we do what we can to safeguard it by not taking silly risks and then relying on God.

It also shows God can change his mind when he initially decides to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah and Abraham negotiates a lower number to save.
Nothing in the bible is said to be set accept Armageddon which is set in God's diary but we don't know the final date.

Backfoot · 06/04/2020 13:15

OP, are you observing social distancing rules?

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