Belief and Covid

[Beliefiseverything]

There is a lot of fear around Covid understandably. I’m not frightened by the number of deaths because I believe that God gives life and takes life. So if someone is destined to die on a particular day they will die whether it’s of Covid or something else. Have to be accepting of that as hard as it is to face. I’ve struggled when I faced loss of a child but ultimately it was the decision of God so I accepted it.

By that logic there's no point in doing anything since everyone who dies of C19 would die anyway. The 708 people who dies in the past 24 hours or so would have heart attacks or something.

In fact, what's the point in trying to save anyone from anything?

If doctors save someone's life, are they going against gods will?

It’s not an issue trying to save anyone and attempts should be made, but when someone is destined to die its going to happen no matter what the NHS do.

If someone’s life is saved, they weren’t due to die yet anyway.

So why social distancing?

Why have a healthy diet?

By your logic we should lie in bed, drink gin all day and eat cakes.
No point in even having an NHS if it is all in god's hands.

Not such a wonderful God who lets people die, 708 people yesterday alone. The NHS are working to save lives, it’s nothing to do with God as to whether they live or die.

I believe that if there is a God they gave us the intellect to see how what we do impacts on the planet we inhabit. If we ignore that then things like Covid19 will happen.
It’s no doubt a cause of deep sorrow to God that we ignore this aspect of Free Will and continue to do such damage to ourselves.

Not such a wonderful God who lets people die

I know what you mean - and it’s truly awful to think of people dying alone - but we all have to die. I tend to think along the same lines as Professor - we have free will. I would also say that medical staff, everyone who is keeping things going and helping to save lives, is in a sense ‘doing God’s work’.

The OP’s approach is much too fatalistic for me. Nor do I see God as a micromanager. However, I think when awful things happen, it can be helpful to frame it as ‘God’s will’.

As I don’t think God exists (there is no evidence), whether someone dies of this horrible virus, will be 100% dependent on any underlying health conditions, how quickly they received medical attention and whether they responded to treatment. That is how death works - my DH is a doctor.

It’s not an issue trying to save anyone and attempts should be made, but when someone is destined to die its going to happen no matter what the NHS do.

This is completely illogical. What is the point of trying to save someone if the outcome is entirely determined by god and not by what the NHS does?

Presumably if you believe in God, you also believe he created everything? So why did he create Covid 19? Why did he create cancer? Why did he create things whch kill innocent children?

If you believe God created everything then he created an interlocking system of living (and non living, in the case of viruses) things. We are the custodians of that system because of the way we have evolved. Free Will means we can do that in a sensible way that keeps a balance or we can behave in way that tips the balance so we, or other species, suffer adverse effects.
We’ve moved from Sin to Consequences Of Our Actions.

Zoonotic diseases have come largely from us not respecting the way species interact. I’m not singling out any particular country for this, as throughout history all races and communities have been guilty of that.
We mess with the climate, we get climate change that affects us adversely is another example. If you look at at the Biblical flood, it’s like a metaphor for what we are doing now. We’re not being punished by an old bloke with a beard in a cloud, we’re reaping the consequences of our own actions.

@speakout It’s important to look after our health as our bodies were given to us by God. So it doesn’t show gratitude to sit in bed all day eating cakes.

@Parker231Death is a natural order. Nobody can live forever. people like saying why does God let people die but how many people are grateful to Him for the life He gives?

That’s not how death works. Your DH or any other doctor can’t stop anyone dying with medical treatment otherwise everyone would recover with the right treatment. People have died even with the right treatment. My cousin is a surgeon and sometimes no matter what he and his team did, they did all the right things but the patient died anyway. He knows how death works. It’s not in his control or that of any humans.

@Professor I think we do have live with the consequences of our actions, that is why God doesn’t stop us from doing bad, we do have free will. He just knows what we will we do in advance.

No, a great deal of death and disease is down to human choice not death. Obesity, lack of exercise, drinking and smoking too much, lack of care for mental health, can all lead people to die earlier than they otherwise would. That has nothing to do with God.

Your DH or any other doctor can’t stop anyone dying with medical treatment otherwise everyone would recover with the right treatment.

That's a complete logic fail. Medical treatment prevents a high proportion of deaths.

However, if that's what you believe, obviously you'll not be calling on the NHS for help. Have you written up your instructions- DNR, god will do what he wants with me?

Even doctors can’t explain why some people die with the right treatment, they know ultimately it’s not in their hands.

It doesn’t mean because it is in Gods hands, that I shouldn’t look after my health or seek help, there is nothing wrong with that. But if I seek help and I die anyway it was Gods choice and not the fault of the doctors.

Faith doesn’t dictate that you don’t look after your health and avoid medical help. You look after your health and seek medical help but life is ultimately Gods decision not the surgeons, doctors or NHS.

Belief is a funny thing when it comes to natural disasters like pandemics. Many on MN profess to not believe in God. But these same people definitely are viewing COVID as a punishment for sin.

China’s sin of selling and eating wildlife, China’s sin of not being a liberal democracy, China’s sin of having violated Hunan rights.

All these things scientifically have no bearing on whether or not a pandemic will occur, and yet on many threads you will see people firm in their beliefs that these aspects regarding China are the reason why a pandemic arose in China and many are saying China should be further punished until they change their culture/government/laws. Because by punishing China, they think future pandemics can be prevented! Lol

It’s sad to see we have not evolved much mentally because historical documents from almost seven centuries ago showed the same thought patterns. During the Black Death many countries blamed Italy because they allowed Jews to live in their country. They felt that they were first to get the disease in Europe because they were spitting in the eye of Christ by allowing nonChristians to live peacefully among them.

@GrumpyHoonMain doesn’t always work like that does it? Obese smoking alcoholics can live to an old age while others can die younger with no existing health conditions. Otherwise some heavy smokers wouldn’t live such long lives.

Zoonotic diseases have come largely from us not respecting the way species interact

Ah, so we have the sin of “disrespect” causing a virus to transmit from animal to human. Scientifically, this is not true. Viruses are always mutating to spread to new hosts within an ecosystem. Any animal (including humans) that share that ecosystem with or without ‘respect’ is a potential target.

I disagree we have to live with the consequences of our actions as in helplessly accept them. We can learn from them. That’s why God (if you believe in one) gave us this vast and ever-developing brain. Unfortunately, at the moment, we’re not listening to the people who have used those brains to understand things like floods and bushfires and pollution and viruses.

Doctors saving patients are agents of God/sent by God.
It is like the modern parable of the drowning man.

COVID has nothing to do with whatever you imagine God to be, it’s a virus!

Plan I’m not using ‘sin’ as I explained. Please don’t misrepresent what I have said, it’s not helpful.

Respect, understand, are wary of the processes by which viruses jump species......whatever you like to call it.
We should respect the natural world and its power. Whether that’s a lion or a virus. How close is too close? Is what we should be asking. And if we do get close enough for a virus to do what a virus is gonna do, how can we mitigate the damage it can cause to us?

Obese smoking alcoholics can live to an old age while others can die younger with no existing health conditions. Otherwise some heavy smokers wouldn’t live such long lives.

That can be down genetics. Some people have the gene which makes them susceptible to cancer if they're inhaling polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (found in tobacco smoke), some people don't have it.
So, I suppose you'd say god decides which genes you have but in the real world, understanding the causes of disease leads to treatments. Life expectancy is much higher now than before modern medicine and hygiene.

Agree with Professor again, and Plan. We interpret events differently today than we did in OT times. But we still look for explanations and we interpret things according to our own prejudices. And some people’s belief/faith in God is overly literal to the extent that they put themselves and others in danger by, for example, congregating in megachurches to ‘pray away’ the virus, when they have the information and the means to protect themselves and others by doing things that are actually useful.

There is absolutely no way that the 700+ who died yesterday would have died anyway if not from Covid-19.

It's nice you have something to believe in though if it helps you through difficult times.