Muslim mums on Christmas ...

[stacey2910]

Hi I'm a revert with a 3 year old and 3 month old.. wanting to still celebrate Christmas, not in a religious way but to just still do festive things and buy presents eat food be charitable etc.
My husband is really against it even though my background and family don't follow any religion and still buy me and my little one presents and still want too. I still want to decorate the house no tree of course. Its really getting me down that he's so against it to the point we're we are currently not talking. Any advice or opinions or help is welcome...

Is this your first Christmas together?

We don’t decorate our house, but we are invited to and do visit relatives who celebrate Christmas. We take gifts for them to reciprocate gifts to us. But actually I love giving gifts and it’s a good excuse to treat the family.

I go all out for Eid, we throw a massive party with gifts and food and decorate the house.

You need to talk to your husband about this without arguing.

No it's not our first Christmas together. This will be the first one in our own home tho.
Presents are not to much of an issue, but my 3 year old obviously talks and believes in Santa but my husband doesn't want him to have anything to do with it, Iv tried explaining it can't be helped after al he's only 3!
It's everywhere, every other advert,kids talk about it at nursery, there's trees in every shop at restaurants so he doesn't so much understand why it's not allowed at home. Iv said I don't think it's a big deal until he's a little older but he's forbid it completely. Iv tried telling him to understand from my point of view with my family but it turns ugly.

I’m not sure the best way forward if you want to celebrate Christmas and your husband doesn’t.

My children knew from a young age we didn’t celebrate Christmas and there was no Santa visiting or anything. They never said anything to their friends either just that they didn’t celebrate Christmas so the Santa subject never came up for them.

Your husband has a point if you celebrate Christmas and then take it away when your children are older, they’ll be upset about losing out on gifts.

My friend has sat down and taught her son the Islamic perspective of the birth of Jesus the son of Mary. And again she’s told her son we don’t celebrate Christmas we celebrate the two Eids.

I feel like he's too young to be told about it all and about Jesus he wouldn't have a clue about what I was talking about. I just don't see why there isn't a compromise I'm not wanting to celebrate on a religious level.
Iv got my whole family to think about aswell.
Why can't it just be a nice time for everyone and an excuse to buy presents an over eat?

Could you compromise and put up some Winter themed decorations like snowflakes or something? It would keep the kids happy and it’s not religious. A Muslim friend of mine used to let her kids decorate gingerbread houses during the holidays as a compromise with her husband because it was a house, didn’t involve making people or religious figures of any kind, and it’s not religious.

Yeah I think I will get some gingerbread houses for sure. But it's not enough for me

Most people in the UK that celebrate christmas are not religious.
There has been a midwinter festival forthousands of years before christianity added its tuppence into the mix, so we now have a strange blend of pagan/christian and secular. Involving candy canes, evergreen trees, men in red suits and camels crossing the desert.

I am an atheist, and I also stake a claim in the secular tradition of christmas, which is as valid as any other.
My christmas has no religious spect to it, but we have a christmas tree, turkey, hanging stockings, exchanging gifts etc.
No god or jesus comes into it as far as I am concerned.
"Evidence" from the bible shows that jesus- if he even existed- was born in September at a time when shepherds were grazing their flocks on higher land.
Much evidence to show that christians hi jacked christmas while they were trying to eradicate old pagan practices.
Christmas was banned in the UK for a time by the church, the ban lasted 300 years in scotland and only became a public holoday in 1957.

So in celebrating christmas are you indulging in a "religious" festival or simply joining in some secular fun?
That's for you to decide.

I live in a Jewish area where no one celebrates Christmas, the Jewish school DS2 goes to prohibits anything Christmassy (including Christmas jumpers etc). By 3 all of them have a reasonable understanding that they dont celebrate Christmas but celebrate Hanukkah. We are not Jewish and DS2 is not remotely confused (he’s just 3) about Christmas. He realises in school they celebrate some things and at home we do some other things. Children are usually quite clever about these things.

I think I would think about whether it’s your 3 year old or whether a part of you still hankers for the Christmas celebrations yourself. Your 3 year old will get it, if it is explained properly. I think you have to unpick how much of this is your 3 year old and Santa and how much of this is your feeling bereft of old traditions at this time of the year.

we do & have always celebrated it as a celebration of the family - dmil when visiting us thoroughly enjoyed it - nowadays you can get halal turkey from our halal butcher in fact he takes orders - it is only a religious event if you include a religious side to it & to be frank, how many people do these days in the UK? The most "religious" bit is the nativity play & how much of that is seen as religious? If you send cards you can send New Year ones. My suggestion is play it down a little - but I would point out that the Christmas tree has very little to do with Christianity

I often say there is Christmas - a Christian festival celebrating the birth of Jesus and there is Xmas which is actually what most people celebrate. Having a fancy meal, making your house look pretty, watching films on TV and eating tubs of sweets certainly aren't anything to do with religion. They are cultural and this will vary where you live (ie Australians are more likely to have a bbq as it's summer there). Most of the UK xmas traditions have Victorian origins so fairly 'new' really. Your husband may not want to celebrate Christmas but I am sure he done 'Xmas' stuff plenty of times in his life (ie watch the big film on the telly).

Much of christmas has little to do with christianity.

Reindeer
Stockings
Holly and Ivy
Christmas tree
turkey
crackers
Father christmas

No bible mentions.

@speakout, Christmas wasn't banned by the church. It was banned by Oliver Cromwell and the puritans!

Christmas was banned because of the reformation- church and state were aligned.

No, @speakout, Toddlerteaplease is correct. The Puritans were influential under Oliver Cromwell and banned the celebration of Christmas. This was not the state church, which was/is Anglican. Puritanism is a subset of Protestantism which arose at the Reformation, fairly closely aligned to certain Presbyterian groups now; it was not the whole Reformed Church, state-approved or otherwise, and certainly not the whole Church.

I am in Scotland. A different situation.

I have had many Muslim friends. Some celebrate Christmas and some don’t. Many at least have a big meal on Christmas Day even if it isn’t a traditional roast. They still go and visit winter wonderland and take part in things like secret Santa but just don’t have a Christmas tree. I think every family is different. I think most people celebrating Christmas aren’t christian so you should celebrate it if you want!

@stacey2910
Why not celebrate Yule ?
If memory serves me Jesus was born in October but the Christian church moved the celebration to December to take over the old so called pagan festival . For you it would be another Eid ? I’m a Christian by the more excuses for lights and fun plus lovely food the better . St Nicholas rather than Santa is a lovely old legend and a magical story . Santa is a marketing invention by Coca Cola after all !

@speakout, in that case it's even less true. There were two whole wars fought over the separation of church and state in Scotland.

Thank you everyone who has voiced an opinion..some helpful.
So I have made slight progress, I can decorate the house in non - Christmas themed decorations, we are having a Christmas lunch regardless and I can buy a few presents for the children. Just need to work on the whole Santa Claus thing now

Dsil has tandoori Turkey at Christmas or turkey tika my ds is in Australia & they have it bbq (when they don't have the awful problems they have this year)

I grew up in an area where Christmas was everywhere but as a Muslim I didn't celebrate it. It never affected me negatively. My parents clearly told me that Christians celebrate xmas (well it was like that 20 years ago but here in the UK it seems like less of a religious thing and more if a commercial or even just December holidays type of thing). Your children will understand why you don't celebrate xmas if you let them know why.

My Christian neighbour told me that Christmas isn't even from religion and has a pagan background. You'll find loads of videos on YouTube about this which will help strengthen your own belief as to why Muslims don't celebrate xmas. You might think it's no longer celebrated that way but it is.

You can still enjoy the December holidays as it is. Kids get two weeks off of school, it means more time together as a family and meeting up with friends. In all that as a kid I never felt I was missing out on decorating the house etc although I understand that is the culture you come from. You can still enjoy the holidays without linking it to Christmas.

There is a talk on YouTube by Yusuf Estes on Santa Claus. It might give some insight. He was a priest before.

I think Eid is becoming very commercialised with the expectation of gifts too. Islam really is about gifting randomly and not limiting it to birthdays, Eid, Mother's Day etc. I mean how many threads do we see on here and other forums where people are forgotten about on their bday, mother's Day etc? Islam is about embracing each person throughout the year. People are forgetting this though. Gift randomly. It means so much more.

With Christmas lunch, we just don't name it anything. We eat together anyway but around Xmas there are more people around as more people are off school etc so it just means more people and more food but once again there isn't really a need to label it anything.

Basically you can eat all you want but don't need to label it with the Xmas name. It can just be eating because there's food and more time or gifting because you haven't seen x person in a long time but gifting your kids an Xmas present wouldn't be a part of Islam.
It's like how people from Indo Pak backgrounds have traditions which are 100% not from Islam and actually from their culture which might be mixed with a major religion in the Indo Pak world. It can interfere with ones core belief in Islam which is no associating partners with Allah (therefore disassociating oneself from the festivals) or another example is forced marriages or women being treated worse than men and expected to be slaves to the in laws. This isn't from Islam but from some cultures from back home for certain people. Islam is very much about creating clear lines and a clear path.

We used to see Santa at the local shopping centre and his elves would be giving out free chocolate coins. We very well knew he was not real and was just a man dressed up in red clothes, we took part in the activities at school etc. Your children will not be affected by not celebrating Christmas.

Definitely check the Yusuf Estes video.

Did you concert to Islam for marriage or did you want to convert because of the beliefs in the tenants of faith? I can send you a link of a revert in London who can explain Christmas from Islam's perspective but someone who comes from a similar background to you and understands what it feels like to have Xmas in that way? You can ask him whatever you want and then see from there.

My family did it. Jesus was a prophet after all. Many of our family friends were quite so liberal. I remember being told by a friend as a five year old that I’d go to hell for it. Maybe you husband was similarly indoctrinated. If you don’t have ham of mulled wine, don’t sing Christmas carols and don’t have any pictures of Santa et al I don’t see why you couldn’t celebrate as a Muslim. As an alternative you go USSR on the issue and just do Christmas on New Year instead.

@babba2014 have you read the Koran, the husband that used to heat their wives during my childhood used to quote holy scripture as their justification. You really can’t say Islam hasn’t contributed to the oppression of women, after all, they are only worth half an man aren’t they?

OP, when you say it 'turns ugly', what do you mean? Are you safe?

I know this isn't Relationships, but worth an ask just to check