Do you believe in Divine Retribution?

[WellThisWasUnexpexted]

I live in a small community so I can't discuss this in RL. I've also namechanged.

Something awful has happed to someone (let's call this person A).

A does not have a great local reputation. A uses underhand methods to get what A wants. A tramples over people.

But something terrible has happened which is shocking and quite Biblical in context. I'm not going to say what it is as it is potentially triggering, and we are also talking about real people here.

I was a wavering agnostic but now I'm so shocked I'm open to the suggestion of the hand of God.

If you are a non-believer, please don't come on to say it's a coincidence or I'm being trivial/insensitive/ bad taste. I would like a discussion with believers about the concept of Divine Retribution across all faiths.

Thank you.

I don't believe in god, I don't follow any religion but I believe in karma

And yet Karma is derived from Hinduism, so Karma is faith-related.

Thank you for your reply. Yes, this thing could be Karma.

Have you heard of 'just world theory?' It explains why, as humans we're so attracted to the idea of karma/divine retribution etc.

I don’t generally, but I’ve also very recently witnessed Karma kicking someone’s butt who made my life so sad for a year.
(Which was lovely).

Thing is, I’m not sure that bad things are more likely to happen to bad people - but perhaps we notice enjoy it more when it does.

Mmm, I do believe in God but I don't know about Divine Retribution. I think a lot of us reap what we sow, but some really lovely people have extremely difficult lives and some absolute sods seem to live the life of Reilly. Still we do not know what hell it is to be inside their heads.

I hadn't heard of just world theory but I've now googled it and it's very interesting.

Low level scahenfreu is also (secretly) gratifying which is why the video clip of Michael Gove falling over makes me laugh every time.

I also agree about bad things happening to bad people is more noticeable or more significant. If this particular event had happened to someone else, I would be very sad - and I do feel great sorrow for someone connected to A. But all I can feel for A is WTF?

But; if it's a thing, then why doesn't every wicked person get their comeuppance? Why just some?

And why do some lovely people have shitty lives?

I believe we reap what we sow, whether in this life or the next. I also believe that we're all connected, so gloating at others misfortune is just laughing at ourselves. Although tempting it's just misplaced.

Bookmarking.

I still don't get why the good people have shitty things happen to them. This incident is the first time I've experienced a shitty person have something catastrophic happen to them.

I still don't get why the good people have shitty things happen to them. Why not, if we have multiple lives, why would every life be easy.

It depends on who decides what sort of life we are born into. Is it random or is there a point system from previous lives?

the first time I've experienced a shitty person have something catastrophic happen to them.

But being a shitty person wouldn't warrant a catastrophic event would it? Just a bit of shittiness back? Also it's likely this catastrophe is going to effect more than one person, which is another flaw with the theory.

Exactly headinhands - A might have the bad Karma coming back at him, but other people in the family don't, especially on this scale.

It doesn't seem to me that people generally get rewarded when helping others. Some do, some don't.

It would be good to think Karma worked but I doubt it. It's a shame really.

I believe God exists. The bible is clear God is a Holy God who bring both love and judgement. Some of the bible accounts you see show the judgement in this life, some show the mercy and love. God is both.

There are many places in the bible that speak of how God says "vengeance is mine, I will repay" (Romans 12:19). He doesn't always repay in this life, and it's His to know and not ours. We are likened to the clay pot instructing the potter on where to put the handle. It's the Potters job to decide.

Then there is the story of Job, and how his friends assumed he had done great wrong and was being judged by God. God made it clear it wasn't his judgement, as Job was a good man. The salt of the earth. Precious posters mentioned how bad things sometimes happen to good people, and this is a great example of exactly that. Again, we are the clay and not the potter.

It's dangerous to see people's misfortune and think that they're being judged. The bible warns against that! It talks of taking out the log from your own eye before trying to remove the spec from someone else's. God is the judge of all. Sometimes that means we want to run and hide (who hasn't got something they don't want other people to know about them?) and other times it means God will stand or for us when we are judged unfairly.

But the biggest message of all is how a God of judgement has such love and mercy. He likens it to how we correct a child but still love them dearly.

You clearly have a sense of wonder... does God exist? He can use many things to make people think of him, a sunset, unexpected kindness, undeserved forgiveness, and in this case, the thought of judgement. It would do you no harm to read the book he gave us all about himself, and find an alpha course to ask questions you may come up with.

*previous posters

(I'm sure they're precious to God, but I don't know them from Adam!)

He likens it to how we correct a child but still love them dearly.

Yeah funny you should mention that. You see, when I correct one of my children I tend to do it with words, like explaining how/why what they did wasn't the right choice.

I'm not so keen on orchestrating catastrophic events in their lives. Seems a bit crazy. I mean, wouldn't social services get involved if they knew I'd say, pushed my child down the stairs because they lied about having done their homework? Or tampered with the brakes on their bike because they said something nasty to me? Just seems a bit psychopathic and monster like to me.

don't get carried away with Karma. Karma is cause and effect. There can be good Karma as well as bad Karma.

Bad Karma. Get drunk (cause) have a hangover in the morning (effect)

Good Karma. Give love (cause) Receive love (effect)

www.oprah.com/own-super-soul-sunday/marianne-williamson-on-forgiveness-and-divine-compensation-video

I love this that I've found recently (trying to forgive someone who isn't sorry). Very woo but I think I can get on board with it.

Seems a bit crazy. I mean, wouldn't social services get involved if they knew I'd say, pushed my child down the stairs because they lied about having done their homework?

God doesn't push children down stairs when they lie.

HTH.

The analogy of the parent/child relationship isnt so inexplicable surely?

As parents perhaps to the baby we hold down as the doctor gives them their immunisations, or a child begging for a sweet we hold in our hands we refuse to give even though its fully within our power, or letting an older child learn cause and effect from making their own mistakes even if it humiliates them (eg get your own pe bag sorted) - we are also in the position of a cruel powerful mercurial being as it would seem to them. we do that according to some kind of wisdom.

I really don't believe in either divine retribution or karma. What has happened is no more than coincidence. Otherwise you can't explain things like the dreadful tragedies that are visited on good people, or the fact that some serial murderers get away with their crimes for so long.

He doesn't always repay in this life

So sometimes he does exact judgement in this life? Can you give me an example of what that might look like?