Christians - dark night of the soul / feeling jaded

[FrightsaidRed]

Note: if you’re not of the Christian faith and only want to be unpleasant / tell me it’s all rubbish anyway, please bugger off to another thread.

I’m having what I can only describe as a dark night of the soul. I cannot hear or get through to God and I’m questioning the whole thing, it’s been this way for months.

I was raised a Christian (but in a very dodgy cult type environment which is a whole other thread) and as an adult found my own faith if you like and have always attended evangelical churches. I hate church from an interaction point of view if I’m honest because I don’t like most Christians (I find them fake, insincere, full of ‘jargon’ and never there when you actually need them and sure as heck don’t have any actual answers about the biggest questions) but I attend when I feel able mainly out of guilt because “church is important and believers need each other” but more because I’ve got young kids and I feel I should be sending them to learn about God / Jesus. And they love it, they thoroughly enjoy church and get very excited about going. Loud music, dancing, games and bible teaching, what’s not to like if you are 6?

I’ll be honest and say I’m totally disillusioned by the churches we’ve attended as every single one has started small and then it’s a matter of a year before they’re demanding money and trying to build a mega church, with all sense of pastoral care and discipleship gone and a complete focus on money and buildings. The one we have attended for 5 years now wants a million odd quid to knock down its perfectly ok building and create a whole new one. Meanwhile people in other parts of the world don’t even have running water. So that’s a big problem for me and has been for a long time.

But I always had my faith. However now I cannot connect with God at all and frankly I’m in a dark, empty place. I have never felt so alone. We attended church yesterday and they sang how He has never left us ever ...and in my head I’m screaming “Really?!! Really?!!!” For context I’m also someone who was sexually abused as a child and have all kinds of other crap happen as I’ve grown up into adulthood and beyond including infertility, so I’m probably more disillusioned and bitter than some as I look as the shiny, perfect young Christians who life hasn’t kicked to the kerb and just feel angry.

I know I sound bitter and cynical and I know I’ve become that way. I just don’t know what to do. I am so ANGRY with God. I feel so abandoned. I’ve tried repenting, shouting ....nothing.

It also probably doesn’t help that with the evangelical movement there have been lots of prophetic words etc spoken over those close to me over 20 odd years now and I’ve not seen them fulfilled but then everyone makes excuses and says ‘well they didn’t have enough faith...well sometimes prophetic words have an expiry date...’ etc. Meanwhile I watch people suffer and given false hope.

If you’ve read all of this well done! And if you have any suggestions on how to get out of this awful misery I’d be grateful to hear them. I’m bordering on thinking it’s all a total lie and if it isn’t, how can God be all loving / merciful etc and yet at such a hard time in my life (so much has gone wrong) I cannot find Him anywhere. Yesterday they preached on “persistent prayer” and yet I’ve been practically screaming at heaven for the last 3 months to no avail. I’m beginning to think I’ve been talking to myself all these years and Christianity is nonsense. I suppose it’s our own fault in many ways, as look at what Job went through. He got it all back afterward but how can that ever make up for all the trauma and loss?! Anyway I digress but seriously if anyone can help me I’d be grateful. I don’t have a single Christian I even trust enough to take this to, I think my lack of faith would terrify most of them and have them arguing with me rather than trying to help me!

This sounds really tough.

I'm not an expert on the dark night of the soul but first thoughts are that your church doesn't sound like a good fit at the moment. Big Evangelical churches are really good with new Christians but some of them struggle with the later stages of faith. There might be a cathedral or a more traditional local church where you might here God more clearly in the stillness or structure.

Have you ever heard of spiritual direction? This might help as these are people who are trained to help people work through the things you have highlighted.

To find one type spiritual director and your county into google and hopefully there will be a contact person for the local organisation. The London one is here www.lcsd.org.uk/

@mostlydrinkstea thank you, no I hadn’t heard of spiritual direction but it sounds helpful. I think I’ve realised the “modern” church isn’t a fit for me anymore, it feels so very shallow. I also read somewhere whilst googling my feelings to check out Mere Christianity by CS Lewis which I’m hoping will help. I want to come out of this stronger, not faithless.

Hi FrightsaidRed I don't really think I have anything to offer you apart from saying I understand where you are right now as a lot of what you write resonates with me.
I have mentally taken a step back from expecting answers from God and the church. Somehow it has taken the pressure of.

I haven't really discussed it with anyone apart from one friend who is very understanding. As you say most Christians are not very good at this kind of thing and I've found they blame you. It's not your fault though.

I would try a different type of church. The pp is correct about evangelical churches, the support is not always there for stuff like this.

I am sorry, I feel like I haven't got any advice to offer.

@deadzed it’s nice to feel I’ve resonated with someone. I have found evangelical churches a total no-go for any sort of support either for myself or others. I even knew a lady who worked for the church who experienced PND and nobody went to see her or pray with her during that time. They literally turned away from her. When I sought help the same thing happened. So we left that church 10 odd years ago and upon finally settling in another it’s been the same really. I’m starting to feel a more traditional Anglican Church will have a lot more in place for those in need, the widows / orphans etc. I see none of that where we’ve been, but when we’ve visited Anglican churches I’ve noticed it is more outward looking. I suppose that’s the thing isn’t it - the evangelical churches are inward looking, all about a ‘great experience’, how was it for you, is the coffee good / music good etc and never mind the rest of the world. In the church we’ve attended the last 5 years there seems to be no ‘mission’ beside improving buildings. The pastor is very happy to spend time in the mega churches in America but not so much the slums of India. I’m so jaded but I’m thinking aloud here!

Try Anglican. I've started going to an Anglican one & they've been great - very welcoming (but not in a pushy way, just people saying hello & making me feel part of something) & very supportive of my autism. And I find that the sermons often have something small but that has relevance for me e.g. the vicar mentioning how God is always there even when we doubt or turn away from Him. That was really helpful for me to hang on to that week when I was struggling & feeling like I was all alone in the world.
Give it a whirl? Nothing to lose & lots to gain.

Maybe you need to try another denomination. Maybe the Church of England or the RC church would suit you better. There are charismatic/ evangelical branches in both. You just have to look a bit harder for it. But you might find more of an 'organised' church more helpful and clergy can guide you in the right direction. Or do some spiritual direction.

Thanks @range and @toddler I’ve decided based on this thread to do that and actually even going to an Anglican Church will give me access to a properly trained vicar who can help me with the things I’m struggling with if they don’t right themselves. It’s become very apparent to me how untrained some of the pastors in the evangelical / modern churches are when I look at how much one of my family members who is a CofE vicar has to train and the endless hospital visits, going out whenever needed and being completely there for his congregation. I’m sure bible college is great but it seems to be of itself not enough in the scheme of things to pastor and mentor it’s flock. In the churches I’ve experienced in the last 15-20 years there’s no actual support in place.

I don’t have a lot to offer other than empathy. It can be so difficult in a frenzy of modern music, proper coffee and comfy seating to say “I’m not okay”. Echoing what others have said. A church with a little more structure might be helpful for you, I go to one now after years of being part of huge non denominational churches and find even in the darkest days, I know I’ve got a role to play and a number of people to call on. It’s not exactly “cool”, there are no drums or electric guitars, but I definitely feel it’s offered me a clearer understanding of my faith on a personal level.

Thanks @sunday. I think I’ve realised I’m so over “cool”. I desperately want real.

I am an agnostic (I happily accept the not knowing) so do not share your search, or your disappointment when you feel it has let you down.

But I have many friends who have a faith (several being vicars) and what I observe in them is that their faith is very personal - they have no real need of organised church to endorse what they believe. I also see that evangelical churches do not have the same sense of community (and care for those in the wider community, whatever their faith or none) as village churches and smaller settings do.

I think that your problem is not with your faith, but with the church that you have chosen. How about popping in to some others and seeing how they do things?

I do have a massive problem with church I agree @mishappening but unfortunately it is a faith issue too which hasn’t been helped at all by church. I’ve been to church a grand total of 4x this year as I’m so disillusioned with it, but whereas previously my faith had been enough, it seems I cannot hear God or get any response at all whereas previously I had felt I had heard Him clearly on things. I’m now questioning if I ever heard at all. It’s a tough season where it is all seeming to slip away from me. I just hope I can catch it because I don’t want a life without faith.

I've been in your position and now I don't attend a physical church. I used to attend an evangelical and a non-denomination prior to that.

I found my beliefs were out of step with what they believed. I was introduced to 'kissing fish' and that suits me much better.

I joined an online church/ st pixels. Although it's different to what it was, they used to have real-time online church services, I am still in contact with several of them, some of which I ask questions like you have done at the start of ur posts. I wonder whether an online church is something you could investigate? I know there are some out there.

I do miss attending real life church, but the relief of not having to get up early on a Sunday, and the demands of me having to do things and having to fit it, just doesn't appeal.

I'm thinking of visiting a Methodist church, and possibly a baptist. They both have 'proper' training unlike evangelical. Methodists came from the Anglican Church. I want to attend a church that has more than 20 people!

My local church within walking distance is an Anglican but is a high church. I visited it- so not my thing, but they did make me feel welcome, but I couldn't be doing with all that ritual. Made me realise that I like simplistic services and rather informal ones.

Church is a compromise but now I can't find one that suits, neither can I be bothered atm to find one that suits.

Hi OP. Like other posters have said, I think you should trust your intuition about the church you're in. In my experience, evangelical churches do not like talking about problems or crises of faith - they want to believe that everything can be fixed and healed there and then. This is not my lived experience as a lifelong Christian. I have also gone through times in my life where I felt similar to you, and very bitter, and very afraid that God was not a loving God. Or maybe did not exist at all. So I know how utterly isolating and terrifying this actually feels.

What I can encourage you to do though, is read the bible again and find some of the (many many) passages which show Gods incredible love for humankind, and therefore YOU. Choose to trust that this love is for you too - you might not 'feel' that right now,but you can choose to take a leap of faith. Where you are right now, in this darkness, it is not forever. God is right there with you, even when you do not feel him at all. We know this Because he tells us that is the case. Do not trust your feelings and don't hope to hear his voice in your head. But you can truly know that he loves you and that he is capable of making something very good out of something very bad. He will do this for you, I have no doubt in my heart.

Have you tried listening to a Christian radio station? I personally like Premier Praise and it has helped me through some difficult times. It's entirely passive, no interaction required from you and yet I felt in contact with a sort of on-air church when listening to it. I like the feeling I get from going to church and contact with God and the radio station also gave me that.

Doubt is the hardest part of faith and I believe that we all need to grapple with assumptions and test certainties - even Christ had doubts about the path God chose for him when He cried out "My God, why have you forsaken me?"
I completely agree that trying a different, perhaps smaller church is worth doing. Why not do a bit of 'church shopping' and try out some different ones around you and see which resonates? I love the beauty and timelessness of cathedrals - to know that I'm part of a line of worshippers stretching back centuries brings me great peace. We go to an Anglican Church (where my husband is a curate) which has a small but devoted congregation who care deeply and believe strongly in God and value the role of the parish church (we host a winter night shelter, a kids club and are trying to do much more).
But I would also say that I feel God (I feel Him more than I hear Him) in the spaces and places between people, in quiet and stillness. Most of all I feel Him in nature - I don't know if that might work for you? Maybe try getting away from where you live and up into some hills or off to the coast where you can contemplate the beauty and joy of creation and marvel at your small place in such a great work?
I hope you can find some peace xoxo

Hello OP, I would also second what others have said. I am a convert from atheism and was always drawn to the ancient churches who still retain great respect for mysticism. I came into the RC church via a very charismatic group that still maintained all the Catholic prayer, ritual, scriptural and devotional practices that nourish me to this day. I still enjoy times of exuberant worship but that is not the core of what my faith is based on, it goes much deeper than that.

I think you need to find some kind of fellowship or faith community that is much more intentional in exploring a mature and profound faith. I can point you to a few resources I know of in London, Norfolk and Cumbria if any of those are near you.

Hi frightsaidred. I know what it's like to feel heaven is empty. I set up a FB group with some Chrustian friends and we've grown a bit to just under 50 members. We discuss all kinds if things and would be happy to discuss in a Christian environment what you're struggling with. There are also ppl in the group that are great at praying for others. We also do fun things like quizzes and word games.plus we are reading through the Bible currently in jonah. All activities are optional and don't need study guides. If you're interested pm me and I'll invite you .

Hello FrightsaidRed.

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this darkness, and that you're not finding your church a place you can authentically share this kind of thing. It doesn't sound like a particularly helpful place to be right now. I do want to encourage you there are churches - even of more evangelical/charismatic slants - which are caring, honest and listen to pain. I hope you can find one.

The experience of the dark night is incredibly lonely and isolating. It's very well attested through history as a part of Christian life - many of the mystics talked about something like it. The one connecting factor in their accounts was that it was something which in the end would grow their faith. I've found this personally - I've been through times when there feels nothign, simply thick darkness - yet walking through that I've discovered that my faith has grown because I've had to rely more on a head knowledge and certainty about faith than an experiential view. This has been helpful because it's matured my faith, drawing me from relying on the 'emotion' of knowing God into searching further into truth. Some of the great Christian writers have been very sustaining through this kind of thing.

Jean Paul De Caussade described the dark night as a slow process where God was no longer visible, shining light on the path ahead, but withdrew to a more hidden position - yet still urging us on, walking with us unseen.

I don't know why it happens. It's so very hard, but it can be a positive part of a journey. I've found Psalm 42 to be incredibly apt in this situation; the psalmist is so desperate, remembering how things used to be and how he used to find joy in worship. It delves so deep into this dry desert experience - and yet ends on a decision to keep praying anyway: 'Yet I will praise...'

I hear you. At St Martin in the Fields there used to be a leaflet with a quote from Eliot that just said - all you are required to do is come into this place and kneel. I often found that comforting

I'm glad you're going to read CS Lewis. Mere Christianity is excellent, but also try The Screwtape Letters for a really accessible approach to the Christian life and struggle (but be aware, its written 'back to front', as letters from a senior devil to a junior one, so you have to remember you're reading the 'other side's' point of view. Once you get it, though, it's really very helpful) Also try The Problem of Pain and A Grief Observed which really delve into suffering and doubts.

I've done the Christian cult thing, and I've been an Evangelical. My family is still very much into the happy clappies, but it always leaves me cold. Personally I found comfort and peace in Catholicism, but I'm not trying to sell that - I just want you to know that what you are feeling, or not feeling, is entirely normal and part of the Christian experience.

Obviously the Psalms are a very good place to explore too - they are so honest about being full of pain and doubt, and yet somehow find a way to turn it all back to praise eventually, and I don't mean in a trite way.

I've never really understood why modern evangelicalism finds no place for embracing the laments in life. Jesus cried, Jesus was terrified, Jesus understood what it felt like to be abandoned.

Honestly, if no one else in your church understands the significance and value of these things in our lives, I would suggest it's not you that has departed from the historical understandings of Christianity...

Don't look without, look within. The answer you seek is not outside of yourself. Find someone who can help you with this.

Oh, and one thing that helped me enormously was Orthodox theology, either Oriental or Eastern. Their understanding of salvation not as a legal thing, but as a healing of a wound, was profound, and their huge emphasis on the love of God that overrides any sense of 'wrath' was tremendously useful in coming to a place where I let go of the need to do stuff to feel accepted by God, or even feel God at all. I have an abusive background too, and there were parent issues that meant my concept of divinity was very distant - but the Orthodox really focus on how close He is to us and this has made so much difference to me.

Hope some of that ramble helps

Lovely posts FloralBunting. Agree so much re C S Lewis and the place of lament and authenticity. I often think my experience of evangelical church must be so different to many, but maybe it's because it's generally been in the CofE and I've found it to be sustaining, real and loving. There's been a great breadth of wisdom, challenge and acceptance. Maybe it's a problem with the term evangelical - I know many equate it with Bible belt right wing values, but I kind of reject the idea of renouncing it because of that, because in its etymology it merely means sharing the good news, which isn't restricted to any 'type' of church or flavour, really... Anyway. Derailment!

Have been thinking of you and praying for you, OP. I don't know if you've ever come across Pete Grieg, his writing digs into some of this stuff without glossing over pain. 'God on Mute' is very good.

I will reply in more detail later (school run rush etc going on here) but I can’t thank you all enough for your prayers, suggestions and kindness. It’s literally a candle lighting the way for me and for the first time in a long time I feel hopeful and that I can find my way out of this.

Can I recommend a book called Daily Prayer by Nick Fawcett (I've got the first one from 2003). It's a 2 pages a day idea for every day of the year with a short Bible reading, little bit like a mini sermon, and a couple of short prayers. I read it in bed each night and it's amazing how many times it just seems to say the right thing at the right time. Something like that might make you feel that bit closer to God again.