Speaking in tongues in church?

[kiltedsheep]

Hello all 👋

Am just wondering whether any of you have had any experience of speaking in tongues, or whether you've witnessed anyone else having that experience. What happened and how did you feel about it?

Personally, I'm not even sure what 'speaking in tongues' means. In Acts 2, the apostles are said to have been filled with the Holy Spirit 'and began to speak in other languages'. But surely nobody's suggesting that people who speak in tongues today are suddenly fluent in a language which they previously didn't know, but in which they can suddenly communicate to other native speakers of that language?

Or is that a total misunderstanding? Grateful for your thoughts!

(Am also interested in similar experiences in non-Christian contexts, too.)

Google 'glossolalia'.

Woah speakout that's crazy! How does this seemingly obvious stunt strengthen anyone's faith?!

Obviously in your mum's case she might say 'oh those Pentecosts, they're an odd bunch, but my church is different'. (Btw am not insinuating that all Pentecosts are odd). But I guess in your sister's case they may learn to fall down on cue without the need for a trip up, and then feel that it's natural.

It would be really interesting to hear from anyone who has had a true (aka natural overwhelming feeling) example of this experience.

Again, not a goady question, am genuinely interested and open minded.

Speakout, that sounds horrible, manipulative and wrong. But I often think that about your sister's set up, it doesn't sound very safe or helpful :(

Heartshaped - I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I'm a New Wine goer of many years so I understand what you're saying. There was a crazy couple of years in the 90s where it was that lion thing, it seemed to be everywhere and I found it very uncomfortable. I wondered how it fitted in with worship.

However, re experience of the Holy Spirit and tongues etc, it's been my experience that everyone is different and so of course won't be receiving stuff in the same way (which is why these very orchestrated 'shows' seem so odd). I think it's very much to do with personality- in my experience God works with who you are, and some people do experience his power in some ways, perhaps more 'out there' and some more gentle. It's never a forced thing and if the leadership are trying to do that it seems very false to me. Thankfully my experience of NW etc is far from that - it's very much about an invitation and not an expectation everyone will do something or feel the same effect at the same time.

Saying all that I've experienced this kind of thing many times, and it's always been at times I've needed to know God near me, and it's always been a very profound and life changing experience rather than just the odd nice shiver down spine etc. It's changed me, too, and that's what I believe we should look for with any of these types of things; does the person respond by being more kind, gentle, loving, faithful etc. If there's no such effect I'm not sure of the authenticity. Jesus seemed far more interested in our behaviour towards the vulnerable than whether we'd been knocked flat by the power of the spirit - but it is certainly the experience of so many that the power the spirit brings fills us with peace and with certainty, with grace and with a longing to tell others. Just like the earliest apostles at Pentecost.

I know many churches discount all such experience as mass hysteria, but I prefer to follow the example of Jesus and the early church, and I have no doubt that these gifts were used to build people up, and know that they still are, when used in careful and gentle ways.

I'm sorry for your experience. I guess there must be those who feel the need to fake in order to belong. But you cannot force God's hand.

I personally consider it ballocks.

But I am open for options to enable it( assuming it's safe to do so)

Sorry, that wasn't saying you were trying to force anything. Just that it sometimes happens.

You say you'd be interested to hear from anyone who's had this natural overwhelming experience without faking it. What would you like to know?

Thanks for everyone's posts so far! It's so interesting to read them all. (And I have previously googled glossolalia - but I'm more interested in people's subjective experiences, which is why I've asked for them!)

@MargaretDribble That sounds so cringeworthy! Surely those speaking in tongues could just wait until there was a bit of gap in prayer?

@Radio4andChocolate Your description of what St Augustine said is really interesting. Is that from the City of God?

@heartshapedpositnotes @speakout The experiences you describe certainly are disturbing. I have to admit to being - in theory, at least, as I haven't yet encountered it IRL - very sceptical/suspicious of circumstances where a group is being encouraged to speak in tongues, with the result that some people fall on the floor, writhe around etc. It's not that I assume that such people are intentionally 'faking' an encounter with the Holy Spirit, but I reject any suggestion that such an encounter makes you somehow holier, or closer to God, or just a better person that the non-writhing faithful.

My own view is that trust and hope in God - even if you 'feel' nothing -
is grace enough, so to speak. But then I'm not from a charismatic tradition, and I can't accept the idea of spirit baptism.

@OutwiththeOutCrowd ...I don't think I'd feel comfortable in a church full of people with hands raised and talking in tongues. It'd be a bit too much like being the only sober person at a party
🤣 That's pretty much how I instinctively feel about all this, but I'm trying - and probably failing - to keep an open mind! I'm doing a term's placement at a charismatic evangelical CofE church, so that should help (I think??).

Anyway, more views/experiences please!

@Madhairday Sorry - I hadn't read your post before posting mine below. I'm really grateful for your honest and vivid description of your own experiences, and I completely agree with your view of how to approach apparent manifestations of the Holy Spirit/speaking in tongues, ie is the effect that the person is more kind, loving etc. That fits entirely with what I believe about the Holy Spirit.

Could you say a bit more about the ways in which you've felt moved to behave when you've encountered the Spirit? Has it resulted in speaking in what you believe to be another language, or is it more the 'sighs too deep for words' sort of thing?

(And just to be clear - I don't mean to say that anyone who does speak in tongues thinks they're better or more holy etc than people who don't -
I just worry that this is the sort of impression that group 'performances' might encourage. If that makes sense.)

Thanks for your kind and gracious words, kiltedsheep. I can see that a placement in a church with a more charismatic tradition might be somewhat daunting, and I'm in agreement with you about any kind of hyped up group experiences and the idea that this kind of thing makes you somehow more holy or good. If you're thinking that, you're in opposition to what the Spirit produces in people which is humility and servanthood, so I'd be very wary of anything seeking staged or souped up in any way. I would feel out of place in a church that did this and appreciate a much more gentle approach - in the bible when the spirit fell it wasn't because of forceful leaders hyping up crowds. It just happened.

The issue I think is twofold. Firstly, the spirit works in our emotions. Jesus said he would leave the spirit as a counsellor, a comforter, and the spirit is the power of God, so all of these things mean that our emotions are engaged, and where that happens it can get a bit messy sometimes, because emotions run so deep.

Secondly, where humans are there are always those who want to call attention to themselves and also those who want to have power over others. Throw those into the mix and there can be the unfortunate results we read about above. But those things happening doesn't mean that the spirit doesn't move in some fairly dramatic ways; when someone has a deep wound it can take deep healing and I've seen this happen many times including in my own life.

You ask about ways I've encountered the spirit and what I felt moved to do. With tongues, it's been the groans too deep thing and the personal worship. It's not ever out of my control and it's gentle. It leads me into a place I feel like my deepest thoughts and emotions are heard and seen, and those wildest places soothed. Other encounters have had varying effects: sometimes brokenness which leads me to pray for someone or something like an injustice in the world. Sometimes joy and sometimes peace. I've had very physical reactions (not lion roaring you'll be relieved to hear) - but my experience is that they've always led me to that place where I can do nothing but examine my own behaviour and motivations and the way I act towards others - to strive to become more like Jesus.

I think some have thought it's all a pretence or at best a cheap kind of thrill, but if it's not rooted in a deep place of worship and if it doesn't prompt something in us then I can see why it might seem like this.

For the apostles it emboldened and strengthened them. They went from a scared slightly bewildered ragtag band of followers to people who soared; who were able to communicate the gospel in a way which meant early Christianity began to spread.

Sorry for the essay - hope that helps a little. Feel free to ask me anything.

My own view is that trust and hope in God - even if you 'feel' nothing - is grace enough, so to speak.

Agree with this too. I don't think the Spirit working in our lives has to manifest in any kind of sign of even felt emotion, and I also think God works with who we are rather than against the grain. Hence some of us feel closer to God at a large festival and some in a cathedral at choral evensnog. The thing I love about God is that he isn't restricted to working in one set way, and often surprises us. God's grace is for all, however they respond to these things. Some don't feel the need to 'feel' God, some find it an essential part of developing faith, some have experiences of God in this way at some times in their lives and not others - a lot of the psalms reflect this kind of experience.

God's not in a tiny box of our making, and does stuff which can sometimes seem a bit crazy. It's when humans trying to have power attempt to wrestle the spirit's power in some way my hackles are raised.

Like you I think the Spirit is present in Christians whatever tradition they are from: Jesus promised the spirit to all who believe. Some just encounter her in different ways

She was in South America and just speaking with God by herself. A bloke came up to her and told her she'd said something in his language which changed his life. Asked her where she'd learned it etc.

And what language did he ask this in? If it was his own then how did she understand it? If it was in English then how did he know to use English and why did he need to hear her message in another language?

But surely nobody's suggesting that people who speak in tongues today are suddenly fluent in a language which they previously didn't know, but in which they can suddenly communicate to other native speakers of that language?

Yes they are. Someone's aunt's cousin's dog's walker was at church, someone was there who didn't speak any English and the dogwalker solved all her problems even though the person who didn't speak English couldn't tell them that because they don't speak English and the dogwalker can't explain it because they only speak English.

Speaking of dogs ....

Apparently dogs pick up on the accent of their owners, that is, their particular ‘woof ‘is influenced by the cadences of their owner’s speech. Similarly, it has been reported that those who speak in tongues pick up on the way it is done by dominant figures within their group. So 'tongue speakers' end up with something akin to a local accent.

Hello, sashh. He spoke in English, but had heard her speak in his language and was taken aback, so asked how she knew it, and had heard something he'd needed to hear. My dear friend is not really in the habit of sitting on walls talking in tongues, but did that day

It's disappointing. Again with have people claiming something miraculous yet it's never been verified. Why can't we have even one verification? Just one. Something even minor like a paper cut healing immediately?

God's not in a tiny box of our making, and does stuff which can sometimes seem a bit crazy.

I know right. I love reading about the genocides be ordered in the OT. I'm like 'whoa god, you never fail to surprise me, just when I think I've understood you, you go and order the mass annihilation of a certain race. You de man!'

If that happened hih you'd only have the word of those who saw it, so unverifiable. Which is what happens with most of these things. Some people saw it and experienced it, they told others but were then told it was like hearing their best friend's dog's owner's uncle had reported it fifty years ago. Or something.

Also it's not all about that and can be made out to be. But God's not reduced to the odd healing that happens, that somehow lessens what God does in transforming lives all the time. Whether healed or not.

Laughing that so many posters take absolute umbrage at it!! Really? Why? Doesn't bother me!

Ex Christian here. Still have the ability. As with lots of experiences... it's very meaningful when in it and "proof" of the supernatural along with the falling over and visions etc

But I see now it's psychological as my Christian friends in other types of churches never have these experiences- they aren't expecting to and they don't

I did speak in tongues for most of my life, wondered if I still could and turns out yep and it feels just the same... but I don't believe anymore so it's obviously something I learned to do. I expect I would probably fall over if someone laid hands on me too... but then I was conditioned from birth that is what happens, is it any wonder I automatically did?

I think speaking in tongues, groaning, swaying and so on can be a way of getting rid of a build up of tension and that there could be a sense of peace after the storm invoked by going through it. I don’t think people should feel inhibited by a fear of looking silly if there are benefits in it for them from a mental health perspective. Actually I can see parallels with primal scream therapy.

However I do have some reservations about the practice.

While I can’t particularly think of anything harmful about it at the level of the individual experiencer, problems can arise at the group level. There is the potential for a negative effect on Christians in the congregation who just aren’t feeling it.

If you can see that family, friends and acquaintances are having this profound inner experience, which they speak about afterwards in positive, glowing terms and you are left out in the cold, it can be isolating and distressing. You might go through the motions to try to fit in, feeling bad about the deceit, or you might have the strength to tell yourself that you are the one with a hold on reality and the others are fooling themselves like heartshapedpositnotes did. Or you might become convinced that there’s something wrong with you spiritually.

Some people have reported being traumatised through being an outsider to the experience. They have ended up feeling a bit like Ingrid Bergman in Gaslight.

Kiltedsheep in my experience some of them do think they are more spiritual

I largely agree, Outwith, which is why I think Paul placed more stringent checks on the early churches who in their enthusiasm were abusing the practice and therefore ostracising others. Anywhere there seems to be pressure to conform to this would seem to me to be missing the point. As I said earlier, tongues were given to edify the church, not to damage people. And so I'm grateful for when I've seen it in a group setting e.g. at conferences it's not been commended on or dramatized or in any sense made to be what every one should experience. Not where it's at at all. I think it can be used as part of corporate worship but only in a setting where folk are comfortable to do what is right for them. Stand up, sit down, lie down, use tongues, sing in their own language, stay silent, wave dodgy flags. Whatever. The one thing is that it is a corporate expression which reflects a glorious diversity among the individuals present, and never imposes a norm or 'shoulds'.

Your description of what St Augustine said is really interesting. Is that from the City of God?

@kiltedsheep No, it's from the Psalm commentaries. Here is the passage I was thinking of:

'Let us therefore run unto this blessing, let us understand jubilance, let us not pour it forth without understanding. Of what use is it to be jubilant and obey this Psalm, when it says, "Jubilate unto the Lord, all you lands," and not to understand what jubilance is, so that our voice only may be jubilant, our heart not so? For the understanding is the utterance of the heart.

I am about to say what ye know. One who jubilates, utters not words, but it is a certain sound of joy without words: for it is the expression of a mind poured forth in joy, expressing, as far as it is able, the affection, but not compassing the feeling. A man rejoicing in his own exultation, after certain words which cannot be uttered or understood, bursts forth into sounds of exultation without words, so that it seems that he indeed does rejoice with his voice itself, but as if filled with excessive joy cannot express in words the subject of that joy....Those who are engaged at work in the fields are most given to jubilate; reapers, or vintagers, or those who gather any of the fruits of the earth, delighted with the abundant produce, and rejoicing in the very richness and exuberance of the soil, sing in exultation; and among the songs which they utter in words, they put in certain cries without words in the exultation of a rejoicing mind; and this is what is meant by jubilating.. ..

When then are we jubilant? When we praise that which cannot be uttered.'

Just to add my experiences to the mix...
It's not unusual in my church for people to mutter quietly in tongues when praying for someone else. I feel it is a way for me to 'feel out' what is going on for that person, and pray appropriately.
I've also joined in singing in tongues, in a conference setting, and it was truly beautiful.
I have prayed for people who have dropped like a stone, and been prayed for in that context.
I tend to sway very dramatically but not go down.

I wonder if the falling is a symptom of a state of profound inner relaxation. Maybe our underlying constant tension (which keeps us upright) falls away when we are distracted by and lost in prayer.

Whether it is an external force acting within us- an act of the spirit- or an internal biological mechanism we tap into, for me it is still a gift from God.
It brings me peace when I am so wound up I have no words, and let's me express my love for others when I don't know how else to.

Actually, I had similar experiences in labour with DS1- a 'going deep inside and riding out the feelings' sensation.

Interesting thread. Also been to New Wine I would see so many appearing to be filled with the spirit, speaking in tongues crying, laughing and going down 'in the spirit'. One lady, in an aisle, went down and hit her head - so no pushing - and she seemed unaware of how she got there. The first year, I found it rather disturbing but later got used to it and desperately wanted to feel the Holy Spirit in that way.

At other events I witnessed the same. Christian friends admitted later to being 'pushed over' and these events were led by very public and influential church leaders which makes me think a lot may be man-led not God-led.

After a few, I was scolded and told that I should be speaking in tongues. I shamefully confessed that I didn't have that gift. I was encouraged to just try and it would happen. I do know, if I had, it would have just sounded something like flalalaburlah, so never tried publicly. Nothing happened privately either.

So I do believe in tongues but perhaps as a private prayer rather than the showmanship and performances that I have witnessed.

Outwiththeoutcrowd oh gosh, absolutely. I started writing my post and got distracted and came back to it and posted before I had read yours but that is exactly how I felt! - Why wasn't God speaking and touching me like everyone else, - I was desperately hoping, if I was touched in the same way, it meant that I was as righteous, loved and accepted as everyone else there but at the time, I felt that my past sins must have put up a barrier between me and Jesus and I felt like a fraud and I should take the hint.

One day at church everyone held hands and I was next to the Vicar and I was scared that as we touched hands, God would tell the Vicar that I was not spirit-filled like the others, I was so scared that I would be un-masked as a non-spirit-filled Christian.

Wow this is really weird. I’m glad I’ve never come across this and would find it quite demented.