Why has God allowed religion to be so tribal?

[Jason118]

There is so much solid teachings in religious dogma and so many warm and kind people who practice. Why has it all come to this, or was it ever thus?

The concept of free will is used by Christians to explain moral evil but it certainly does not explain natural evil. Are natural disasters that kill thousands also the work of an omni benevolent God ?

Yet the same God who wanted to protect the Jews did nothing during the Holocaust ?

It was his day off

Missy now you are just avoiding the question.

Is it morally ok to kill a child for the sins of its people?

Is that specific enough for you?

If your answer involves 'i need more context' then please, give an example of a situation where it would be ok to kill a child because of the sins of their people.

God is just and will serve justice on all of us who have done wrong) however it is Jesus who actually receives the punishment not us.

That's immoral. Imagine you killed someone drunk driving and the judge said they would serve the prison sentence for you. The idea that someone else can take the flack for your own fuck ups is wrong. I'm responsible for my mistakes.

Patriarchy you are being a bit rude now so il make this my last post.
You are asking me the same questions and ignoring my answers.

This thread epitomises why I could never be a theist. I'm simply not capable of the mental gymnastics required to square all these circles. Honestly, it's just too complicated for me!

So many gods...
So many ways of interpreting these gods...
So little that makes sense...
So much we don't have a fucking clue "mystery"
They're all so weird and complicated and angsty.

Patriarchy wasn't being rude, just asking you to justify your responses. By deflecting and flouncing you are making it quite clear that you have no answers for the questions you've been asked.

Missy

Have you answered the question that myself and others have asked about is it objectively moral to commit genocide or kill children? If you have then where? Please repost your answer because we must have missed it.

All you have done is listed half baked justifications such as 'God wanted to protect the Israelites' or described how bad the Egyptians were. That doesn't answer the question about whether God's actions were objectively moral in those circumstances.

Spoiler alert - they aren't. The God as described in the Bible is a wicked, vengeful, childish bully who commits crimes of unspeakable horror.

Objective morality does not exist, and even if it did, it certainly does not come from the God of the Bible.

My word! I have answered the question, it's being repeated over and over! I'm certainly not flouncing, I'm really not that bothered what you think, but it's exhausting going over the same point again.
God may be loving, but he doesn't take evil lightly and can therefore bring down his wrath on people.

We are not god, we are accountable to god.

You may not approve of the abrahamic god.... but you are atheists so why are you even investing the time to argue this out? What does it matter to you?

I'm not accountable to god, as far as I'm aware.

@MyTeapot it's really easy once you step away from organised religion. I was Christian orthodox,now technically Catholic.

I love debating religion,I don't get offended. I believe in evolution and see the Bible a bit like Aesop's fables for example.

Free will is easy to accept if you think of God's input simply as creating the conditions for the universe/Earth to happen and to be compatible with life.

I don't think he cares if you call him God,Allah,Buddha or the High Priestess.

Just like he doesn't care about many many other things as long as you are a decent human being...not perfect,not without sin or vices, just decent.

All the rules and regulations promoted by churches are simple control. They used threats or promises for centuries to control the poor,the women,the children.

Missy

But surely you can see that doesn't answer the question?

I'm happy for you to believe that God can 'bring down his wrath' on people, that's irrelevant to whether or not it's the objectively moral thing to do, which is the entire point of this evenings discussion.

I'll ask again, is it objectively moral for God to bring down his wrath by killing children?

@Missymoo100 where has God's wrath been for the past 2000 years?
When his beloved jewish people have been murdered by the millions?
When children have been and are murdered,abused ,raped and maimed?
When his beloved Christians are targeted and killed?

Where is his wrath?

Rebel
That's a nice take on things, something to think about and removes the indoctrination of organised religions from the equation

I agree Rebel / Jason.

If religions were a bit nicer more like that it's be lovely and a lot easier.

Still... I'm no more convinced of the existence of any gods or goddesses than I am of dragons or fairies. And I manage to be a decent person, all very straightforward really

@Jason118 not a lot of people agree though. I'm a religion of one.

Tbh I don't need them to. I can keep my faith,my rational thought,my incredulity at the Bible as "truth" and "historical" without the need for mental gymnastics or fear I've somehow got it "wrong".

Well as I said we are not god, we do not set the standards that apply to god. God set the 10 commandments so that we could thrive, for our benefit. We can chose to ignore it but all it does is being ruin to us- as I was trying to illustrate with my analogy.

Therefore morality is for our benefit and is based on biblical principles laid out by god as a guide to ensure human flourishing.

God is not us, we are not god- as it says in Isaiah;

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
"As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Missy

So God is exempt from his own moral standards? Therefore they are by definition not objective.

Thanks for confirming you agree. We got there in the end.

@Missymoo100 then how can you claim to understand God and not just that but that your way is the only right way.

Everything you know about God comes from other people. It comes from word of mouth(of people),translated in thousands of languages by people,written down by people,recited and interpreted by people. People that make mistakes,that can be influenced,bribed,threatened. People that can fall victim to their own bias .

How arrogant and...human.

Well rebel the originals were not in thousands of languages- there's numerous copies in the same language- but that's another topic.
And calling people arrogant for no reason? I don't know why but a lot of vocal atheists I speak to, online at least- where they can hide- seem to be incredibly rude.
Why they delight in coming onto a forum about religion and then being rude to people is completely beyond me. It's like it's some weird sport.

@Missymoo100 not an atheist. I believe in God. I'm technically catholic and was raised orthodox. Fear of God and all that shit.
I can believe in God and still call bullshit when I see it.

When you say farming I think you are imagining some kind of 'Children of Cherry Tree Farm' like rural idyll. Not at all. But your idea that moving to the cities hasn't helped the majority. They've ended up living in slums.

To me god is a higher universal truth, he just IS- I agree re the universal truth but can't get my head around or make sense of a man/father figure.

We are not god, we are accountable to god. Psalm 82:6: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Part of the bible I agree with.