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Philosophy/religion

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No Church service on Easter Sunday- can someone explain?

109 replies

speakout · 02/04/2018 06:28

My mother has recently become a Mormon- was baptised a few months ago. Not my bag but I have been supportive and the church community have welcomed her.
But she is confused about their lack of enthusiasm for christmas and Easter. Our other local churches were busy all day on Easter Sunday, with three or four services each.
Mormon church was closed. No services at all in the past few days. Normal Sunday morning service was not running. I thought easter was a big thing for christians. Can someone explain.

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speakout · 02/04/2018 20:01

Why is the conference more important than community Easter celebrations?

I know of 3 elderly church members who spent Easter Sunday alone- and with no internet access.

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mummyhaschangedhername · 02/04/2018 21:09

Speakout, that is really upsetting and that should not have happened.

Conference is always this date, it was still church, it was just people should have had the option to watch online or at church. Think it's hard to explain really, for us, we get to hear our prophet speak and many senior leaders of the church and what they talk about is Easter, the celebration of Jesus' life, his anointing sacrifice, the celebration of the risen Lord, and the resurrection for all people. It also signifies a new start, a fresh start, trying again being better. It's actually quite renewing and refreshing, especially at Easter. But it's not on Easter every year, just so happened to fall that way this time.

Bishops are not paid, they all work (unless older and retired) so I guess some do less than others, it's just sad when members are prevented from being renewed and able to participate.

In all wards I have been to the chapel always opens for all or part of conference. But also we are encouraged to look out of each other and make sure everyone has a place to be. I must say, I think it's sadly being the case where people less think of others. It really sad your mum missed out, do do see your point fully though, it must seem really really odd. The thing is for Mormons there bi annual conferences are big events, this one was a massive one, we had big changes including a new prophet sustained (he's been in place for months but first time members could show their sustaining of him).

artichokehearts · 04/04/2018 23:14

OP, There are central items of belief that all mainstream Christian churches (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) believe in, notably the Trinity (ie Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and Mormonism falls outside this. Easter is the single most important festival for Christians because it is the demonstration of how Jesus fulfilled his purpose on Earth (dying and rising so that we might have eternal life). Mormonism is very much on the far fringes of Christianity in terms of their beliefs. I am a Catholic and although Catholics might like to turn on the TV to see the Pope give his Urbi er Orbis speech for 20 minutes on Easter Sunday (thank you BBC!) there is simply no way that any kind of church conference would be scheduled to coincide with Easter because clergy are needed in their parishes to celebrate Easter with us. Perhaps your mother could attend another local church if her Mormon meeting house is not celebrating all the Christian festivals she might like it to. But it might be unreasonable to expect Mormons to conform to what other churches are doing. They have their own beliefs and ways of doing things.

akkakk · 04/04/2018 23:54

A cult is a religious organisation which follows the teachings / thoughts of a human, not of God. Mormonism comes into that category as they follow the teachings of Joseph Smith, not God.

The Bible is pretty universally established and accepted amongst the mainstream Christian religions (RC / Anglicanism / Baptists / Methodists / etc.) and the Bible has some pretty established teaching about the Trinity / Resurrection/ Jesus / etc. when you have a 'church' such as the Mormons teaching somehing different, then they are not a mainstream, Christian religion.

They have a lot to admire -esp. community and service, but they are not teachig orthodox Christianity, so to that extent are no different to any other organisation based on a human's teachings such as Scientology, etc.

The Bible is very clear on redemption through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, and the need to personally repent / ask forgiveness / choose to follow Christ - passages, such as John 14:6 - I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. is pretty self explanatory and completely denies the ability of organisations such as the Mormons to pretend that they can somehow 'get the deceased into Heaven' by baptising family members, it is totally non-biblical and wrong - God is absolutely clear that due to sin, we all have fallen short and will be denied Heaven and being wih God when we die, except for the death of Jesus on the cross taking that punishment, it is therefore only throuh that death, through accepting that death, through Christ, that we can be given access to Heaven etc. It is a personal decision and commitment which can not 'done' by anyone else...

so, sorry, but your mother has been taken in by the (deliberate) kindness of the Mormons and fooled into believing that it is a Christian church, it is not, never has been, and never will be...

Check everything against the authority of scripture, that is the only authority, and any chu4ch (CofE, RC, or others) should always be assessed against that authority - there are plenty of individual anglican and RC churches that get it wrong, but the underlying principle is still correct -to follow the authority of the bible.

Jason118 · 06/04/2018 20:37

But it is just a book on which you are basing your arguments, albeit an old oneSmile

speakout · 06/04/2018 21:10

Exactly jason.

It's all hogwash to me, the "christian " version or otherwise.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 07/04/2018 17:45

Don't call them Christians, that's insulting, they're a cult.

Its funny watching the pot call the kettle black.

speakout · 08/04/2018 08:04

Exactly -isn't all religion a cult?

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Bekabeech · 08/04/2018 09:40

In the CofE teaching it's pretty clear that faith in God and believing that Jesus died and was resurrected is the prerequisite for getting to heaven

Umm not true - this is an area of major theological debate, and one the C of E does not have one opinion on. There are lots (if not most) members of the C of E who would believe that non-Christians can get to heaven. In fact some quite fundamentalists I have known would still argue this.
Of course C of E vicars are always busy comforting the bereaved whether or not the deceased or their family have been to church recently.

OP - if your Mother has been Baptised 4 times, then I think she has issues.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 08/04/2018 10:44

God has promised eternal happiness in heaven, but how could you be happy if your family wasn't with you. Therefore you only need one person in your family to go to 'church' for you all to get into heaven.

speakout · 08/04/2018 12:24

OP - if your Mother has been Baptised 4 times, then I think she has issues.

What are the issues?

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Jason118 · 08/04/2018 12:28

Indecision? Surely they can't all be right?

speakout · 08/04/2018 12:37

I think her belief in god has remained constant- she has been trying out the flavours.

She was baptised as a baby into the catholic church, then went to visit relatives abroad and became a " born again" - Baptist Church, baptised in the sea, came home, joined a pentacostal church- another baptism, and this recent one into the mormon church because she was told it would get my late ( atheist) father into heaven- and that the previous baptisms she had were not valid for that purpose.

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speakout · 08/04/2018 12:38

She has always bought into the human sacrifice/ zombie/sin stuff.

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Bekabeech · 08/04/2018 15:10

Most Churches won't baptise you if you've already been baptised.
I could understand the Baptists but am surprised by the Pentecostals.

Also what causes her to leave each church?

The leaving says something about her almost as much as the repeatedly joining.

Caulk · 08/04/2018 15:21

I’d be interested what she thinks heaven is.

speakout · 08/04/2018 16:00

Also what causes her to leave each church?

The first baptism was in the Catholic church- she never attended nor did her parents take her.
Second was the Baptist Church, it was abroad and she never found the same community back home.
Third was Pentecostal, but the Pastor was imprisoned for embezzlement and she became disillusioned.

So then the fourth in the Mormon Faith- because she has been promised a reunion in the afterlife.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 08/04/2018 16:29

So believing in a god in the first place is quite an act of mental gymnastics. But how do theists go from believing one churches god exists then just deciding that said god doesn't actually exist its a different god up there, then changing their mind again and again. How does choice even come into it, either you believe in a particular god or you dont.

If I believed in say the catholic god and following their rules got me eternal life I would be in church every Sunday and learning every cross and dot of their rule book even if I didn't like them. Its like when deciding which religions rules to follow you are really just treating religion as a social club, not a belief in something real.

speakout · 08/04/2018 16:37

Walkingdeadfangir - it's not like that for my mother though.

Her belief in god and jesus as saviour has remained constant.

She sees churches as like a tennis club. They may have different rules and ways of doing things, ideas of set up, organising leagues. access to outdoor courts , social events , committees etc, but they are all involved with the business of playing tennis and the international rules of scoring and playing.

Same with christianity. Same god, same jesus stuff, just different wallpaper.

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lougle · 08/04/2018 17:07

The Bible is clear that personal faith is required for salvation. But it is also clear that God is a gracious and loving God, full of second, third and 80th chances for us. He is also, as another poster rightly states, outside of time as we know it. We aren't in a position to know or judge what happens in those final minutes and seconds of life, between a person and God, as they pass from this life to eternity. We can never know if those people who may be atheists in this temporal world are given a moment to reflect on that status in their last moments in life, and given the option to repent of their sins and have eternal life. We have no idea. And it is not for us to declare whether someone we knew prior to their death is in Heaven or Hell. We don't hold the Book of Life, and we certainly don't get to hold the pen that writes in it.

The Mormon Church your Mum attends may be relying on a piece of scripture that is often misquoted, in suggesting that by being baptised, she will secure salvation for her deceased husband:

"29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas.
30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

People often think that the 'you' in verse 31 is plural - that is that if the jailer believes, his whole household will be saved. But the verse actually means that the whole household can choose to believe in Jesus, and if they do they will be saved. It doesn't give his family a pass for salvation if he believes.

speakout · 08/04/2018 17:16

The Bible is clear that personal faith is required for salvation. But it is also clear that God is a gracious and loving God

A " gracious and loving god" ??

I have read the bible.

God is vengeful, wrathful, jealous, misogynist, hot headed, angry. He is a genocidal, cruel murderer.

I wouldn't have a coffee with this guy- certainly not worthy of worship.

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 08/04/2018 18:10

speakout So your Mum believes any Jesus religion will do and their rules are irrelevant, do you think she would include Judaism/Islam/Westboro Baptist Church in that category?

Isn't that different than what most of the big religions actually teach. For example the Catholic church preaches that only the catholic defined god is real and anyone worshipping any of the other Jesus believing churches/mosques/synagogues wont be getting into heaven as they are not following the right god or the right rules.

speakout · 08/04/2018 18:55

Walkingdeadfangirl yes- and why not?

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Walkingdeadfangirl · 08/04/2018 19:11

speakout I am not sure, just not met many people that have changed religion. And most of those I have met that do follow a jesus religion would defend their god as the one true god and all those other churches are 'deluded' and their followers either going to hell or not getting into heaven.

speakout · 08/04/2018 20:16

Walkingdeadfangirl it's not changing religion though/

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