When did Jesus actually die?

[PoloPrincess]

Can someone point me in the right direction?
We know that Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and he rose from the dead on Easter Sunday.
Then what happened? When and how did he finally die?

53rd

Sadly not. The Alexander the Great line is always trotted out by Christian apologists in an attempt to lend weight to the whole Jesus thing by suggesting that the levels of evidence for both are even slightly comparable. It's been comprehensively demonstrated by far more intelligent people than me that they are not. Google, or even better a decent library, really are your friend here.

Seriously try researching your arguments before you use them.

🤦

There is a book called The Case for Christ if you are interested in finding out more about the evidence

Equally interesting question:

When and where was Jesus born.

You'd think year 0 but that was a decision made much later through the vagaries of adjusting and refining our calendar(s).

Where exactly? Bethlehem, Nazareth?

What is certain is that he was not a Christian, but a Jew. He couldn't have been a Christian since Christianity appeared later as the result of a schism.

When you say Christian apologists, who are you talking about and what are they "apologising" for Patriarchy?

Lee Strobel discussing his findings.

True it’s just one man’s findings but may interest.

When you say Christian apologists, who are you talking about and what are they "apologising" for Patriarchy?

Apologetics is a study of the defence of the scriptures. I find apologetics very interesting.

What is certain is that he was not a Christian, but a Jew.

Well of course he was Jewish. I don’t think anyone, anywhere would disagree with that.

Dione

This is embarrassing.

Apologetics is the correct title for the discipline of defending religious doctrine from criticism through discourse and argumentation.

Christian Apologetics specifically is an official branch of Christian Theology.

If your trying to convince people you are a knowledgeable source of information on religion, it's probably not great to ask questions like that in a public forum.

🤦

He couldn't have been a Christian since Christianity appeared later as the result of a schism.

Interestingly the first form of the word Christian appeared in Antioch and was actually a mocking sort of insult. A ‘here come the Jesus wierdos’ kind of thing. It appears in scripture in Acts 11, so was written around 75-95AD is memory serves me correctly.

Fortunately for them, the Christians weren’t offended and kept the title.

This comment isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen so much facepalm on one thread in my entire life.

I want to frame this conversation and keep it forever.

🤦

Zippyboo2 - there's also a book called "Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All", which you might find interesting...

The original question seems to be about Jesus’ ascension according to Christian tradition, rather than whether he existed/exists. The ascension is described in the following passages:

Mark 16:19

Luke 24:51

and Acts 1:1-12

The 40 days between resurrection and ascension appears to be an attempt to link the narrative to the ancient scriptures of the OT in which the number 40 appears regularly.

Broadening the scope of the question slightly, I find it interesting to compare and contrast the way other religions with Abrahamic roots view Jesus’ ascension.

In the Quran, for example, the crucifixion story is mentioned with opprobrium. Islamic tradition has Jesus ascending to heaven without having died, however fleetingly, beforehand. The divine saviour narrative is very much frowned upon and seen as a corruption of Jesus’ original message and a slight against Jesus and God.

The holy books of Mormonism tell of Jesus making a post-ascension visit to the Americas to preach and heal before ascending yet again. (He’s due back at an unspecified date in Missouri.)

This comment isn't aimed at anyone in particular, but I honestly don't think I've ever seen so much facepalm on one thread in my entire life.

Well clearly you are directing that comment at Diane

All the facepalms and such are a bit

If you have no faith, why jump on a thread in ‘religion.’

I am a Christian. I do t believe in, say Islam. I wouldn’t jump on a thread where a Muslim has just started going back to their mosque and start criticising their faith. It’s just crappy behaviour really. Just leave people be, this thread wasn’t originally about what you (Not just you admittedly) turned it into.

Patriarchy, I am not defending any religious doctrine, nor am I a Christian. And I have not claimed to be a knowledgeable source of information on religion. I am not at all embarrassed that there is stuff that I don't know, instead I ask questions.

Who are the Christian apologists that you are talking about?

HyenaHappy but religion- christianity in particular has an influence on every single one of us in society.

It has moulded the social architecture had an influence particularly gender roles in society and christians continue to enjoy an unfair advantage.
Many of us do want to engage in talk about philosophy and religion even though we have faith- it concerns us all.

Hyena

Because it's an open question posed in a forum entitled philosophy/religion? What give me less of a right to be involved than you for example?

You'll note there is another thread running about Christian prayers that I am not on. Because it doesn't affect me how people pray. I could jump on and point out how scientific testing has shown that intercessionary prayer has no affect (other than a minor placebo effect when 1. The person being prayed for knows they are being prayed for and 2. They are also deeply religious.) But I don't because that would be a thread derailment.

However if they want to start discussing historical facts and theories, of course I'm going to get involved.

You see the difference?

HyenaHappy - Read the OP. She asked for some information, and people have given their opinions on it. This has led off on a tangent because some people can't bear to have facts pointed out to them, but this isn't a thread about someone discussing their faith.

HyenaHappy but religion- christianity in particular has an influence on every single one of us in society.

I get that but by effectively saying ‘I don’t like Christianity so I’m going to disrupt and derail Christian threads’ is pretty crap?

As I said, I’m not a Muslim, I wouldn’t disrupt and derail a thread about Islam. Just let there be a place where people can chat, surely a thread in the ‘religion’ topic can be allowed to continue without always turning into a derailed argument?

Take it from a Christian on MN, it’s a very, very difficult place to even mention that you have a faith. Nowhere else have I experienced such intolerance and actual nastiness toward my faith and actually at me. On MN I’ve been called and seen many other Christians called stupid, deluded, mentally unwell (yes really), having an imaginary friend, believing in ‘sky fairies.’

Just general crap, narow-mindedness. It’s unavceptable to speak like that anywhere but at least in chat or AIBU it’s more understandable that arguements will happen but not in the religion topic surely? There really is nowhere ‘safe’ for Christians to talk on MN and that’s actually pretty sad.

"I wouldn’t disrupt and derail a thread about Islam"

This isn't a thread about Christianity! It was a question about when something is supposed to have happened. Why are you unable to see the difference?

I'm guessing it's the persecution complex that many Christians feel when their privilege is threatened.

Cardinal, you claim to have studied this area, under what discipline did you study it?

I have studied it myself, off my own bat. I hope that meets your approval.

Why, where have you studied it?

Hyena

What do you mean by 'safe'? If you don't want your beliefs challenged then go to a Christian forum, there are plenty out there. If you want to discuss/debate like adults then you are going to face criticism and challenge.

Do you think I confine myself to atheist only forums online because I don't want my ideas to be challenged? Quite the opposite because i know I can answer every religious argument that is put to me, it actually strengthens my position. If you can't deal with open discussion or routine challenge then you might want to question the strength your arguments have to begin with.

If you have received personal insults, thats not ok of course but a lot of what you are calling insults are simply statements you don't agree with. (Look up the definition of 'deluded' for example)

Criticism of your religion is not an attack on you

If you constantly find yourself in a position where you are faced with arguments that you cannot answer about your beliefs, then the rational response is to change your beliefs. Not cry about being persecuted.

I haven't studied it. I never claimed I had. I got a D in my Religion GCSE.

But you haven't "studied" it either. You may have read extensively on the subject, but so have most of the people who claim the moon landings were a hoax.

I think the way the question was couched originally was probably ambiguous on the issue of whether this was necessarily a question about Christianity, given that other religions describe the ending of Jesus’ earthly ministry too. The second post from the OP does seem to suggest that an answer from within the Christian tradition was sought.

For my own part, I find it illuminating to consider the various other narratives about Jesus that exist within other religious traditions. I may have been wrong in assuming that Christians would also find it interesting to read of the commonalities but, yes, also the ways in which beliefs clash. My apologies to Christians posting on this thread should this be the case.

However I would certainly like to encourage Christians to investigate how Jesus is viewed by other religions, most especially Islam, as a first step towards understanding and peaceful co-existence.

Patriarchy, you have made a number of incorrect assumptions about me based on no evidence. You have made quite a few incorrect statements and said things that you have not backed up with evidence. Why then do you think that anyone would change their beliefs because of your arguments?