I think people should be careful doing Reiki

[lottieandmia22]

This post assumes a belief in spirituality so I'm not interested in debating that specifically. If you want to please start your own thread.

From what I can see, reiki is channeling occult energy through people's bodies and is therefore potentially risky. It seems to me that new age practitioners will repeatedly say they don't believe in malevolent entities but I think this is naive.

One of my friends told me that his dad was never the same after he became involved with reiki.

And also nearly everyone I've met who has done it was told by the reiki practitioner that they are 'special' have a 'gift' or could easily become a reiki master.

Socrates, actually. Shakespeare was just quoting it as a well known by then proverb. Is that right. Do you truly understand it though

Better than you, obviously.

Meta calling someone 'honey' really doesn't mean you are good at debating, it just makes you look like a patronising fool.

Nobody has mentioned 'hand waving' other than you. I didn't see any hands waving. YOu are just putting it like that to make it sound silly.
Yes ofc I took their advice.. it was interesting and mind opening.
You might want to try something like that one day.

Please do not call me 'dear' 'love' or 'honey' it does not make your argument more convincing.

That thing about "no proof that it's impossible" sounds like something Trump would say.

No, it does not. It just a statement that is accurate in the strictest sense. Reiki's efficacy, whilst unproven has not been disproven.

Personally, I would not particularly advocate unproven medicine. I might say if something worked for me or relay another person's experiences with it. It is an option but a vastly different one to medicine for which the efficacy has been statistically demonstrated.

I do think there are very probably treatments which do work but which have not been fully researched to the standards the NHS, for example requires. However without this research correct dosage and the most beneficial minutiae of the exact methodology used with these therapies can be a minefield for consumer and indeed practitioner.

But this does not mean all alternative therapies should be ridiculed because they are 'unscientific'.

Better than you, obviously.

I agree with OP. Reki is occult. Yoga uses the same body poses that were once worship positions to ancient gods- good to hear of a vicar with some spiritual discernment (not hiring out the church hall).

It's been suggested that some reiki practitioners are actually doing a low level hypnotism on people, which can explain the sensations. It's totally unethical though.

You believe in hypnotism, then, meta?

tinkerbellone "Yoga uses the same body poses that were once worship positions to ancient gods"

Does it? I am an atheist and if that's true, it doesn't worry me anyway - yoga is great for stretching I find.

the fact that a priest won't allow it really puzzles me. Would the priest ban a stretch & relax class? That would be likely to incorporate certain stuff from yoga.

This is an interesting quote regarding hypnosis:

Despite the fact that the practice of hypnosis has been around for more than 200 years, many of its mechanisms remain mysterious. Its effects may appear to border on the supernatural, yet the brain - as is often the case - holds the key. There may still be some way to go, however, until we fully understand this intriguing instrument called "hypnosis."

(www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319251.php)

Why wouldn’t people believe in hypnotism?

Bert, here's the update to the original study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29198932/ I get that you don't believe, but such is the power of belief and confirmation bias despite evidence.

I haven't been in the consultations with the patients Meta, so I cannot comment on the exact words used. I very much doubt that they say these don't work because the reason that they recommend them is that they do work for some people.

Because the mechanisms by which it works cannot be explained Bertrand. Some people are deemed more 'suggestible' than others. It is even described as bordering on the 'supernatural' in some of the scientific press. Surely you can see the similarities between this and other alternative/complementary therapies. It is even described as a complementary therapy by the NHS. They say this:

Hypnotherapy is a type of complementary therapy that uses hypnosis, which is an altered state of consciousness...scientists disagree about how it works. Some experts see it as a relaxation technique that uses the power of suggestion or relies on the placebo effect.... These studies don't provide any strong evidence for its effectiveness, but the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) has nevertheless recognised hypnotherapy as a possible treatment for IBS in those who haven't responded to other treatments... Overall, the evidence supporting the use of hypnotherapy as a treatment in these situations isn't strong enough to make any recommendations for clinical practice.
No firm conclusions can be made, because the studies are generally only small and of poor quality.
That doesn't mean hypnotherapy won't help you – but if you wish to try it, be aware of the relevant safety and regulation issues, outlined below.
Safety and regulation issues
Hypnotherapy is practised by some doctors, dentists, psychologists and counsellors, but it's also offered by non-professionals with little training. This is because in the UK, hypnotherapists don't have to join any organisation or have any specific training by law.

(www.nhs.uk/conditions/hypnotherapy/)

My point being that it is somewhat ironic for someone who claims to be deeply concerned medicine is 'scientific' suggesting an alternative therapy's effect is due to 'hypnotism'. Something that is not scientifically understood or efficacy of the practice of it scientifically proven.

“Because the mechanisms by which it works cannot be explained Bertrand.“

But there are circumstances where hypnotism is proved to be effective.

But there are circumstances where hypnotism is proved to be effective.

Which studies are you looking at Bert? This seems to contradict what the NHS says (see the quote in my earlier post).

"It's been suggested that some reiki practitioners are actually doing a low level hypnotism on people, which can explain the sensations. It's totally unethical though."

Meta - you say this has been "suggested". So, this is just hypothetical speaking, but not based on any scientific facts/research?

Bertrand, I am very fond of you and feel that we have a lot in common on some issues, but you are so absolutely closed to anything that not 100% allopathy. Personally I use allopathy as a last option becaue there are so many Iatrogenic illnesses

Bertrand, you believing that hypnotherapy works - other than placebo - has confused me

but quite frankly, you saying it makes me inclined to rethink it so please let us know of any sources etc if you get a mo. Thanks!

My point being that it is somewhat ironic for someone who claims to be deeply concerned medicine is 'scientific' suggesting an alternative therapy's effect is due to 'hypnotism'. Something that is not scientifically understood or efficacy of the practice of it scientifically proven

It's not me that suggested it. It was scientists. Hypnotism is scientifically understood, why do you think otherwise?

Personally I use allopathy as a last option becaue there are so many Iatrogenic illnesses

Big words don't make that any more sensible you know?

Meta - you say this has been "suggested". So, this is just hypothetical speaking, but not based on any scientific facts/research?

I guess you don't know what suggested means in scientific terms.

It's not me that suggested it. It was scientists. Hypnotism is scientifically understood, why do you think otherwise?

meta, this is getting tiresome. Have you not read my posts or are you attempting to gaslight me?

What is it about this, I quoted from the NHS, in my previous post, that you have not understood or dispute?

"Hypnotherapy is a type of complementary therapy that uses hypnosis, which is an altered state of consciousness...scientists disagree about how it works. Some experts see it as a relaxation technique that uses the power of suggestion or relies on the placebo effect.... These studies don't provide any strong evidence for its effectiveness, but the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) has nevertheless recognised hypnotherapy as a possible treatment for IBS in those who haven't responded to other treatments... Overall, the evidence supporting the use of hypnotherapy as a treatment in these situations isn't strong enough to make any recommendations for clinical practice.
No firm conclusions can be made, because the studies are generally only small and of poor quality.
That doesn't mean hypnotherapy won't help you – but if you wish to try it, be aware of the relevant safety and regulation issues, outlined below.
Safety and regulation issues
Hypnotherapy is practised by some doctors, dentists, psychologists and counsellors, but it's also offered by non-professionals with little training. This is because in the UK, hypnotherapists don't have to join any organisation or have any specific training by law."

(https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hypnotherapy/)

This being a salient point,

"... These studies don't provide any strong evidence for its effectiveness,..l"

Along with this:

"Scientists disagree about how it works. Some experts see it as a relaxation technique that uses the power of suggestion or relies on the placebo effect...."

Meta - I do know what suggested means in scientific terms, thanks. So patronising.

What I'd like to know is why some people get off on trying to belittle others.

maybe we get off on truth and science and combating ignorant "alternative truths"?
It's quite the thing these days.

If you feel belittled because your beliefs are challenged, its because you realise those beliefs are not correct. And silly.