Querying my faith over school places

[Balletbore]

I am applying for school places for DD. I am a committed Christian and have attended church, both c of e and baptist for most of my life and just to give you examples of my commitment regularly attend my local church, I guess three out of four weeks with my family. I also go to the family events e. G toddler groups.both of.my children attend Sunday school etc. I am keen for my eldest child to go to our local c of e Church and my vicar kindly completed the relevant forms for making an application via faith criteria.

Someone who lives down the road and who just attends toddler group at the same church and occasionally our Messy Church which is held every month (she goes every few months, I guess) so we know and chat casually has also told me that she has applied under faith criteria, and has also her form signed by the vicar. This has upset me. I know I am wrong to be upset because it isn't a competition in faith etc and yet I feel hard done by and very unchristian thoughts. I should also point out it is very competitive admissions for aforementioned school and in the event of not enough places, places will be prioritised under distance and the other lady is more likely to get a place.

I would be very grateful if someone who has been in any similar situation could 'hand me a grip' or help me come to terms and help explain the church's thinking when signing these additional forms. Just to emphasise, I know I am being ridiculous, I appreciate on an intellectual basis that attendance etc is not the whole sign of someone's faith commitment and this is not a post about whether c of e schools are justified etc but any thoughts on how I can accept on an emotional level how the church determines whether people are committed Christians would be really helpful. Thank you

Sorry that should say eldest child should go to our local c of e school (typing with one hand)

Why don't you have a chat with the vicar and explain how you're feeling?

I guess I am a bit embarrassed about having these thought, to be honest. But yes that is the obvious step x

There are two issues I think. The practical issue of how much commitment is required to claim a church place and the emotional issue of how you feel about it. On a practical note it depends what the admissions criteria says. Some have differing categories for weekly / fortnightly / monthly attendance, others just "regular" as defined by them. We regularly get forms with nothing ticked but a note from the vicar - I assume where they have been asked to sign but do not feel able to!

On an emotional level I think you have to set your mind to the fact that you have done what is right before God and you answer only to him. Other people's actions cannot be controlled by you so you need to have peace about this.

Honestly? The faith criteria for state-funded schools is so discriminatory and divisive that it’s pretty churlish to be upset that others are also benefiting from the discrimination.

I’d be grateful that you have any educational options that align with your religious values, that are a logistical possibility for you. It’s more than a lot of folk get, so it might be worth reflecting on your relative privilege, rather than the fact that the privilege is being extended to others in a way you feel is unfairly broad?

Faith criteria has to be measurable and stated in the admissions criteria for the school. It should be demonstrable (which is why many churches have signing in after the service). If the vicar is signing something that isn't true (eg saying this person attends fortnightly when they don't) this could give grounds for appeal if you don't get in. Post on the Primary Education board for more info.

Thank you very much. In terms of criteria point Admissions criteria is determined as someone who attends church once a month regularly over the past two years...

And yes it is coming to peace with other people's actions that is the hard bit and recognising that I have been true to myself and accepting. I want to do it but get so cross!

Basically you don't have to be a committed Christian. You just have to meet the criteria such as going to church.

Well, I think as a good Christian you need to focus on the fact that the other child is just as important a human as yours and also that people's relationship with God is personal and private. So not for you to judge either way.

If it's a good school near the woman's home, then why should her child be denied access?

Teentimestwo yes that is a better way of putting it and helps. Thank you.

United. Kingdom
Yes absolutely, completely agree but what I am trying to 'get over' is the feeling of why should my child be denied acces either if it comes to it?

For my DD’s C of E school there is a register of children who attend the two children’s services. I believe 12 attendances are required over the two years prior to applying for school, in order to get a letter from the vicar. Attendance at other events such as crib service or normal services are also taken into account if flagged to the vicar. It is therefore quite easy for anyone showing a bit of determination to get a letter!

I do sympathise with you, but your friend has clearly demonstrated sufficient attendance in the eyes of the vicar to get a letter, so her child does therefore tick the box. The fact that they live slightly closer to the school is simply their good fortune.

To implement a tiered system of entry according to the ‘depth’ of faith, or to have children listed in order of the number of appearances would be taking it a tad far, don’t you think?

Best of luck.

Gin Some schools do have tiered systems of faith entry.

Richard Dawkins could get a child into a faith school if he were willing to have them baptised and then sit in a church for an hour a week for a year or two. It's like Elizabeth I not looking into men's hearts but wanting outward conformance.

Yes absolutely, completely agree but what I am trying to 'get over' is the feeling of why should my child be denied acces either if it comes to it?

For oversubscribed schools, some children will always be denied access - whether it’s because their parents live in the wrong place or don’t worship the right god, or a combination of both.

My child only got a school place because the committed Christians suddenly decided that a CofE school wasn’t actually that important to them after the school slipped down the rankings. I understand their were many complaints when the new (better) Ofsted came out just after admissions closed.

Ballet, your child will get the place if their criteria trumps the other. If they don't, they don't. Nothing to do with who believes more.

Surly if god wants your children to go to the school they will get a place. If they dont it means god has a different plan.

Everyone should have as much right to a state funded school place as everyone else, even if it is a religious school.

It's very churlish to whinge about your child possibly not getting a place at a good school when a child who lives next door to the school would come further down the list than your child, if their parents weren't CoE and didn't have a vicars letter!

Maybe yourvicar thinks that discriminating when allocating school places based on a parent's attendance at church is wrong? I would agree with him.

What @JassyRadlett said. Unbelievable that you are pissed off about the potential for another 'less godly' kid getting a place over yours. It's an outrage that such discriminatory practices even exist and yet here you are whining about it not being discriminatory enough.
Awful.

Can you imagine the outrage of a godly person who goes to church every week losing a place for their child at the school because the vicar signed the papers of someone who only goes to church "three out of four weeks".

Well there is a christian on another thread who is suggesting to atheists:
"You could pretend for a few years until they were safely in secondary school." In order to get into a faith school.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3133462-to-be-annoyed-that-church-is-so-boring-and-missing-an-opportunity-to-teach-something-inspiring?pg=15

It reminds me of the parable of the lost son. The 'good son' who stayed behind did not get a big party thrown for him. He resented that his brother, who spent all his inheritance on prostitutes got a huge feast when he came home. You need to let God decide what happens here, and pray to get the school which will be best for your child.

So THAT'S what the lost son spent all his money on, all the versions that I've heard have been very circumspect about that aspect.

Almost all the state primary schools here are church owned (I think it's something like 98%), but you only need to be on the parish register to get your child in, attendance is irrelevant. Also the school is obliged to take in all parishioners' children who wish to attend (definitely for CofI schools, and I think it's the same for Catholic schools), so schools change size according to number of children wanting to attend. It makes getting into school much less fraught than when we lived in London (older DC did two years of school there before we moved to Ireland). Unless you're an atheist, of course.

Luke 15:
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him."

Perhaps you need to look at why you are upset here. It is not very 'Christian' of you to resent this child getting a place . Surely s/he deserves as good an education as your child regardless of her/parents lack devotion to the church .