Witchcraft- have you tried? Would you try?

[speakout]

Have you had any experience of this craft? Would you try? I understand that some think it's all rubbish, or may have fear but I am curious to other's views.

No need for ammo as there’s no fight that I can see

I’m not asking anything personal.

Just would like you to acknowledge that casting spells etc would be supernatural if it worked at all. And since you don’t believe in supernatural... what are you doing as the OP of this thread?

Either you actually do believe in the supernatural or think there is a scientific explanation for spell casting.

I would like to hear your explanation if it’s the latter.

No and no.

As a teenager I found it all fascinating, and it was a time when moves like The Craft and programmes like Buffy were very popular. As an adult, I don't believe it works and I have no interest in trying it. Neither do I have any interest in preventing or discouraging others from engaging in it or any other practice that they are drawn to but which doesn't harm anyone else.

I do, to an extent on that aspect, as in why you might say that speakout. I'm guessing you believe the mechanisms of witchcraft are entirely natural, taking advantages of mechanisms concerning how our universe works. Just because science cannot explain them yet does not mean it never will or that these mechanisms, necessarily, don't exist.

I asked the question, though, because I was interested in confirming whether this is indeed what you think.

And it really hangs on what you define as natural and supernatural.

And I would still like to know how you exercise self control / discipline over the 'power' you potentially can exercise through practicing the craft, speakout. How you manage to self regulate so as not to cause any harm. Again I would refer you to popular time machine fiction. Or if you don't bother with this / see this aspect as unimportant. Have a different philosophy concerning what is good and bad or benevolent and harmful. So this aspect does not concern you.

Yes OP I have recently been finding myself pulled back to the craft through spiritual matters. At the moment its thoughtforms which is the same as the spiritual practice of prayer for example.

At the moment its thoughtforms which is the same as the spiritual practice of prayer for example.

Well not exactly, I would have thought, unless this involves believing in (g)God(s) who govern(s) the outcome.

a prayer is a form of energy as is a thoughtform. This is what I mean by being the same.

In my case magpie I've always loved folklore and fairytales especially the Russian ones with the tales of Baba Yaga. I read Alan Garner at age 7 and even then knew there was much more behind the story and the names in the Weirdstone of Brisingamen than appeared. I scared myself stupid with reading Denis Wheatley at age 10 ( I do not recommend him for young readers but I was a bright child and my reading was uncensored!).

I started seriously studying the subject 40+ years ago. I didn't have the confidence to actually do anything though for a long time. Through a number of odd coincidences I met my own teacher and the rest of it is, as they say, history.

LilQueenie I see the key difference between the two is that in a prayer you are requesting a divine being to do something for you. With most spells you are doing it yourself. Some, but not all, witches may request divine assistance to help, others may call upon other forces.

It is an active process rather than a passive one.

Thoughtforms are fun to play with - I create them with a specific task in mind and let them loose!

Elphame, I have always had a deep interest in folklore and fairy tales too. I even studied them as part of my degree. I don't disbelieve witchcraft has potential to be incredibly powerful, if believed in. At the very very least psychologically, which I believe people shouldn't underestimate the impact of. It is the discipline / control side I take issue with. I think there is huge potential to act irresponsibly. I'm still not certain people can actually manage to practice responsibly. I have no problem accepting the supernatural but I take that to be anything not understood by science. Never understood by science - I can't reliably comment so I don't how people can exclude the possibility of the supernatural based on a definition such as this.

It is an active process rather than a passive one.

Prayer is not passive. It requires faith and belief. That is the active part of it. This part of it requires a lot of discipline of thought.

Weird thread. OP is happy to post a thread asking for other people's opinions on 'witchcraft', but when asked about her own opinion and how she can believe in witchcraft but not the supernatural, she says she can't/won't answer because it's too personal.

Ok, to frame the question in a less personal way... once you remove anything supernatural from witchcraft, what is left? Because if it's just some vague notion of 'being close to nature', that surely in itself does not qualify as witchcraft. Many people/cultures are 'close to nature'. Indeed, all of humanity used to be!

Oh and in answer to the OP's original question, no I wouldn't try witchcraft, because it's not real, and I therefore think you can do any make-believe spells you like with no remote chance of danger. I do love Harry Potter though.

Prayer is not passive. It requires faith and belief yes maybe but you are asking someone/thing else to do the work for you rather than doing it yourself.

As for discipline and control - I am guided by my own ethical compass. I have a line over which I won't tread but otherwise if it's something I would do non magically then I have no problem with doing it magically.

This is another aspect that tends to frighten new would be witches - the idea that the only ethics guiding your actions are your own. This is why you see the almost hysterical posts on facebook misquoting the Wiccan rede and claiming witches never harm.

Witches are human beings. All are capable of causing harm, some do for the fun of it, others when required and some I guess never. Which category they fall into will depend on their own ethical/moral compass. You do what you do in the full knowledge that you will have to live with the consequences - if that's a lifetime of guilt well that's the price.

No difference from non magical life really.

Prayer is not passive. It requires faith and belief yes maybe but you are asking someone/thing else to do the work for you rather than doing it yourself

Not necessarily, within Christianity there is the belief that most often the result requires action to be taken by yourself. That God works through people.

As for discipline and control - I am guided by my own ethical compass. I have a line over which I won't tread but otherwise if it's something I would do non magically then I have no problem with doing it magically.

Yes, but ethical compasses do not give a person the power of being able to see into the future or how exactly a spell will manifest. If there is a belief it will manifest. Again back to the idea of popular time travelling narratives.

No difference from non magical life really

But in non magical reality, unexpressed, unspoken (to the people involved) thoughts, without direct (as in non ritual) action, do not, generally, effect life events or people. Courts prosecute on actions not thoughts that remain thoughts, no matter how focussed.

In this way it is easier for a dabbler or novice not to take it seriously enough to prepare themselves and truly think about the consequences. And even with all the knowledge and experience of lifetimes and years spent studying the craft, I do not know how someone is able to truly spend enough consideration in terms of altering the course of events supernaturally. And how do thoughts not begin to just leak into the ether, spells being cast accidentally, without forethought, once the skill of magical focussed thought is gained and becomes second nature?

So that is why I'm more comfortable with the idea of accepting divine governance.

Which category they fall into will depend on their own ethical/moral compass.

I also think this is not static. Rather it develops over a lifetime. How does one know that their moral compass is suitably well developed enough?

I read a book called the Hedge Witch once which was quite interesting and seemed harmless. But I don't think spells and witchcraft are harmless even if they don't appear to work. They can mess with your mind. There are many warnings against the use of witchcraft and spells.

Yes, but ethical compasses do not give a person the power of being able to see into the future or how exactly a spell will manifest. If there is a belief it will manifest

And we are now back to my original comment that witchcraft is not safe. You are quite right - there is no way of telling what the full outcome will be and there will be unintended consequences, some good some bad. You learn to construct a working as tightly as possible to minimise them but I've had my fingers burned in the past and no doubt will again in the future. You learn to visualise and focus very strongly to keep out stray influences. Early witchcraft lessons can be very boring as learning this mental discipline is a key part of practising effectively. Lack of these basic skills is why a lot of people fail to succeed.

How does one know that their moral compass is suitably well developed enough One doesn't - back to the point that witchcraft is not a safe practice. Witchcraft is out of society's control - witches have always been feared because they could not be controlled. They were/are free to act as they see fit. I see Prof Hutton's new book "The Witch" was mentioned up thread - it's a great exploration of the history of the fear of witches - if very academic in tone.

So that is why I'm more comfortable with the idea of accepting divine governance Many people would agree with you.

Well as I grow, harvest and use belladonna, monkshood, henbane etc, the so called baneful herbs, accidental poisoning is indeed a possibility. Fortunately I do know what I'm doing and I'm still here.

Elphame is this regulated? Do you require a license? How do you ensure other people are not harmed? Would you clear the ground if you moved? Do you warn others if you see you plants spreading across boundaries? How do you feel ethically and spiritual about the possibility of having to eradicate whole established plant communities? (With regards to studies concerning plant intelligence, communication, family and community).

Well Elphame, I do find it partly reassuring (sadly not quite enough to be comfortable) that you, at least, acknowledge the danger in the craft and actively think about and take steps to practice more responsibly.

Less comforting that others don't. Not that I believe I cannot be protected from the harm of witchcraft, more that I am concerned about the hurt that could be caused to others inadvertently or indeed purposely.

I would never say you could not exercise your craft for good. Healing, especially, I believe is a good thing. But any lack of knowledge or maturity has the potential to cause harm within the craft and I do not know how one can gage whether a person is sufficient in this.

Suffice to say that I am atheist , don't believe in the supernatural and I practice witchcraft.
er, how can you practise witchcraft and not believe i the supernatural. Surely the supernatural is a huge part of whatever you understand witchcraft to be.
Or are we talking a bit of silly Stevie Nicks twilling around the woods stuff?

None of the plants are illegal. Monkshood which is the most dangerous of them I buy from the local garden centre if I want new plants or a pretty new cultiver. The rest grow wild around here anyway.

Many plants routinely grown in gardens are pretty poisonous when you study them - Yew is a popular hedge but all parts bar the fleshy parts of the berries are seriously toxic. Woodcarvers have been poisoned when working with the wood. I could go into any garden and find a couple that could cause significant poisoning. The ones I mentioned are just traditionally linked with witches.

I harvest only what I need. Interestingly this "must ask the plants permission" is actually a very modern concept. The Greek Magical Papyri has a lovely little spell to be used when harvesting herbs in which you threaten the plant with a frightful curse should it not assist you in your work. Very different from the current approach

Actually , what DO you think witchcraft is You say you are a 'which'. What do you do that makes you are witch?
These are genuine questions.

The rest grow wild around here anyway.

Many plants routinely grown in gardens are pretty poisonous when you study them - Yew is a popular hedge but all parts bar the fleshy parts of the berries are seriously toxic.

I know many poisonous plants are legal and grow wild. I know they are also routinely grown in gardens I did an extensive study when my D.C. was a toddler, for obvious reasons! I expect those that grow them and administer are still legally responsible, if it came down to it, for the safety of others, though. Just as people are responsible over house gas and electrics.

I harvest only what I need. Interestingly this "must ask the plants permission" is actually a very modern concept. The Greek Magical Papyri has a lovely little spell to be used when harvesting herbs in which you threaten the plant with a frightful curse should it not assist you in your work. Very different from the current approach

Funnily enough there is a Biblical based idea concerning human kind been given Dominion over this world (but then some people allowing Satan to take over). Jesus did curse an olive tree. I'm just a bit overawed concerning studies done on trees but I try not to be dangerously sentimental. It does make me think twice about certain forestry practices and having real Christmas trees the house, though. Even growing loan trees and depriving them of their families, social groupings and ecosystems.

And yes, we planted an Elder!

I was the child that cried when trees were pruned, the lawn cut because of the daisies. Regarded nettles with fear and fascination that you could eat them! Loved salad for the novelty of eating leaves. Loved smelling and looking at flowers. Loved eating fruit from the garden. Well I still am a bit like this!