Jewish people

[salsamummy]

I work in a leisure centre and was told I had to leave asap as a group of Jewish young men had hired the whole centre and as a woman I couldn't stay. The receptionist was told she couldn't move from the reception area whilst they were swimming. Can you explain why? I haven't seen any or know of any Jewish people in this area so obviously just visiting .

I've come across the no shake hands just in case thing. It is only the extreme ones, so it wont happen with the liberal synagogue. Clue in the name!

Judaism is like religious pic 'n' mix. People all working from the same texts but with different interpretations and some place greater importance on some things than others. Haredi Jews are a very small minority of the Jewish population in the UK but are the most visible. The men will not touch a woman who is not their wife or daughter, regardless of the period situation. Touch is seen as a very intimate thing reserved for marriage. It is disrespectful towards the woman. They mostly will not touch their wives etc in public as they won't have physical contact during menstruation and its more respectful to their wife to not broadcast that information to others by obviously not touching them at certain points during the month.

Most other Jews are more open with touch. Some Orthodox Jews will still practice shomer negiah but that's a matter of choice. The term Orthodox Jew is SO broad and faith is such an individual thing that its difficult to apply rules to one and all. For example I consider myself to be Orthodox because I was raised and married under the United Synagogue and do not "agree" with many aspects of Reform Judaism but I wear trousers and mix meat and milk, which other Orthodox Jews wouldn't dream of.

As for Dorset, Haredi Jews don't use contraception so often have lots of kids. Dorset is a holiday destination you can take the mini bus to!

Oops didn't mean for that to be such an essay.

Anyone have any other questions?

Thanks bobbiepin, that is really helpful - and interesting 👍

Thanks for that link ohfor, so interesting. I am always curious for more information , and will most probably come back to this thread when I have more questions, so thank you bobbie, your post is also extremely helpful.

No worries, give me a shout if there's anything else you wanna know.

I learned a lot about my own background there Bobbiepin, thank you . So true about taking the minibus to Dorset! - our local beach has quite a few large Jewish families enjoying it today. I must learn more about my heritage!

Hi bobbiepin, just a quick question, or if anybody else could help, that'd be great - can someone explain Kiddush to me? And Kabbalat Shabbat ?? TIA, and salsa, I'm so sorry to have derailed your thread !

Kiddush or kaddish? Very different things.

Kabbalat shabbat is the time immediately preceeding the Sabbath (shabbat/shabbos). Shabbat is a time for rest, prayer, reflection and family. Just before the start of shabbat, the shabbat candles are lit and there are evening prayers. The family are brought together for a Shabbat meal (traditionally chicken soup and roast chicken but its not exclusive to that). There are the usual daily prayers plus extra blessings especially for shabbat. There is a service at the synagogue, where certain songs like Lecha Dodi are sung (Lecha Dodi is welcoming the bride of Shabbat). Kiddush is also made, which is the blessing over wine (there may also be some small bites to eat). Traditionally Kiddush is made at home but it will also be made in synagogue to ensure everyone has had the opportunity.

Then Shabbat starts (and sunset on Friday) and that continues until sunset on Saturday.

Ah, now I haven't come across kaddish - or I may have, and not realised it IYSWIM. I'm aware of the Sabbath, as the timings of my job work around the setting of the sun. Although I was unsure of what kabbalat meant. So where would I come across kaddish ?

Reminded me of the episode of SATC when Charlotte wanted to covert and knocked on the Rabbi"s door!

The word kabbalat means receiving, so kabbalat shabbat is receiving the sabbath.

Kaddish is a memorial prayer. Its typically said by immediate family during the mourning period following a bereavement and every year on the anniversary of the death.

That's extremely helpful, many thanks bobbiepin

👌

Orthodox Jews, they would not shake hands with a woman in case she was having her period, which would be seen as "unclean"

Another lovely example of how religious doctrine teaches that women are just pieces of shit, and perfectly normal biological facts are something to be ashamed of.

Ollie, as people have explained below, that's not the case, it's able modesty and propriety and even then, only amongst Orthodox.

I only know Chabad and Modern Orthodox, but both those groups will certainly look at and chat to women.

Groups who practice segregation are quite strict and quite small in number. As people have said, Judaism has many sects, few are this strict.

That's right Ollie, pick the one thing that fits in with your ideals and beliefs, no matter how true it is and spout a little more hate. What's next? The Muslims are all terrorists? We're all waiting with baited breath for your superior knowledge.

Ollie is right.

Organised religion is deeply misogynistic, and it's actually OK to say that out loud.

I think you're in the wrong topic ollie - have some respect

It may well be misogynistic but why make up stuff or persist with misinformation that has already been debunked?

This is really interesting, we were on holiday in gt yarmouth last week and there was a huge group of Jewish girls there, they were all wearing long skirts, tights and hoodies with a logo of 2017 tour. I was fascinated by them, it was roasting that day and they must have been so hot but I also couldn't work out what they were saying, they were not speaking English but it was a language which just did not register with my brain, like nothing I'd heard before.

@dowager some of the sects within Judaism may appear to be misogynistic. On the whole though, men and women have different roles, not because women can't do something, because they are respected enough to not have to. For example women are not bound by timed prayer as the men are, as they traditionally would have been needed to breastfeed their children, a much greater responsibility. Call that sexist if you want but it is a religion based on over 5000 years of tradition. Men now take a much greater role in raising their children but that doesn't negate a woman's responsibility to her child.

Other areas of Judaism such as reform or liberal are more like modern feminism. It's unfair to make such a sweeping negative statement without proper understanding.

@zerofuchs it may be Yiddish. The language is a mix between Hebrew and German and was developed when lots of Jews were living in Eastern Europe before the war. It is a language spoken at home by Haredi Jews who differentiate between Hebrew for conversation and for prayer. If their tour hoodies were in English they are likely to be British born and fluently speak English but speak Yiddish around their family and peers.

Understanding is the key word in bobbiepins post - I am English Christian, and work with Liberal Synagogues. My job doesn't depend on me knowing everything there is to know about the religion, in fact, nobody expects me to know anything about it, because I am a Christian. I choose to learn, and understand it, and therefore am greatly respectful of it. Although I may well do a Charlotte at some point salsa !!!

Call that sexist if you want but it is a religion based on over 5000 years of tradition.

It's kind of because it's based on 5000 years of tradition, that it's sexist.

Look, I'm an equal opportunities criticiser - all organised religion is as bad as the next.

The OP's asking why she had to leave ASAP, because as a woman, she couldn't stay. There's no really nice way of dressing the answer to that question up.

Aah, I understand now. My DD2 works in a menswear shop, Sundays are her worst day as a lot of Jewish families come in and the wives tell her to clear off! She thought from the drop dead looks, the implication was that DD2 was a lower life form and incapable of measuring up!
Thanks for the heads up Bobbie