So confused.

[McBounty]

Hi

I am just going to get stuck in and explain how I am currently feeling.

I have recently just found Jesus.
I think.

I was invited to my very first Cell meeting just under a year ago.
I decided to go to a few and I found it overwhelming and not for me. I did however, find it very peaceful.

If you're unsure about what a cell group is, it's a group of women (or men) and we meet at a leaders home. The leader spends an hour reading from the Bible, listening to Christian music and praying. Then we eat snacks and socialise.

After about 5 visits, I stopped going. I left all of the ladies that attended and had become friends, behind.

I thought it might be a good time to tell you all, I was a very strong atheist.

I decided recently to go back to a cell group. I feel like, I need to give this a chance. I need to believe in Jesus and God's plan. I have started attending Cell groups again and I even went to my first Church service on Sunday. I cried and I found it amazing.

I have been praying. I have been asking Jesus to forgive me. I want to become a faithful Christian, but I am scared. I still have my doubts.

I wish I didn't, but I do. I want this so so bad. I have started getting excited knowing I am going to see the Cell ladies again at Cell. They have all become amazing friends.
I am excited to attend Church again. I listen to Christian music in my spare time now also, I love it.

I am confused. Just so confused.
I don't even know what to ask.

Right. Firstly, doubts aren't so bad at all! To my mind, if we aren't questioning and digging then what is our faith built on really?

That's why I love apologetics, maybe they'd interest you? Find s good Christian apologist and read some of their stuff. I've heard very good stuff about a book by an ex-police officer called 'Cold-Case Christianity' and also 'The Case for Christ' is good.

If you've not heard of him I thoroughly recommend listening to Jeff Lucas sermons on YouTube and podcasts. He's very funny and very honest and real about his faith. Also highly recommend Francis Chan talks if you want some fire kindled in your belly.

Jeff Lucas was excellent for me when I was seeking as I found his honesty and openness so great (and he is very funny).

Also, Romans 10:17.

If it makes you feel better, I'm 29+ years into walking with Jesus and I'm still so, so hungry for more, I never want to stop feeling hungry!

If something doesn't feel right or make sense then maybe it's not for you. What about trying other spiritual paths.

I understand what you're saying, but in my heart, it feels right.

My mind just doubts it at times though. I don't believe that it's wrong because of this. I just don't think I'm educated enough on the subject.

Read, read, read. Get stuck into scripture. I have an audio bible (there's one that the lovely-voiced Piorot reads. Not sure what it's called, maybe google audio bible David suchet).

I'm so excited for you!

I copied this from a Christian Today interview with Jeff Lucas which you may like:

CT: So what would your advice be to those who are having doubts about their faith?

JL: I would say keep going; be honest and keep asking questions. Questions are not discouraged for the Christian, in fact they're encouraged. Use doubt as a pathway to something more substantial in terms of faith; cut through the slogans and the clichés, but doubt with God.

In the Psalms, for example, you see the psalmist yelling, shouting and struggling, but bringing those doubts to God. Prayer is not just about making a speech of faith; often it's about screaming blue murder about struggles and fears. In that sense, don't allow doubt to distance you from God but instead make it part of your relationship with him.

It sounds like you're missing the companionship and the socialising these events gave you. It's also quite relaxing and soothing listening to someone else reading.

Perhaps don't overthink things? If you're enjoying going to these activities then just enjoy them and see how you feel about everything else gradually over time. I'm not sure how "education" will help though, as surely it's about belief rather than logic. Either you believe in a god or you don't?

Oooooh, I really need to go to bed as I've got an early start but I'm loving this song right now. If you haven't heard it, it might be one that you add to your personal worship time. I find myself singing it so much ❤️

I recommend this website
christianity.org.uk/
(I promise I don't work for them as I seem to recommend them a lot- it's just I found them so useful myself) . I am also ex aethiest but been a Christian about 8 years now.
They are very happy for you to ask difficult questions and argue with them!
I also cried at church (very discreetly!!!) nearly every service during the songs. I did for about 18 months! I just felt very happy and overwhelmed. I just feel much better when I have been to church.
I have been a few times to House group (sounds the same as a cell group) but couldn't really keep it up due to commitments with the kids. I did go to a women's group which I really loved and made some very good friends who helped me through some very difficult things. We would look at a Bible passage and debate it or watch a video clip and discuss it, all over tea and cakes. When I had my youngest they all cooked me meals and I didn't need to cook myself for weeks!

Also I highly recommend Jesus Calling by Sarah Young. It's fab.

www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Calling-Enjoying-Peace-Presence/dp/1591451884?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Exciting! Take your time, doubts are fine -- we all (even long-term Christians) have them from time to time. Some great books have been recommended and I second those.

I recommend reading the bible from cover to cover.

If that doesn't put you off, nothing will...

I recommend reading the bible from cover to cover.

I recommend this too but not to put you off, because it's an incredible book. People that talk of inaccuracies and contradictions generally haven't read it and understood it. It's complex, highly accurate in its prophecies and clear that it's written outside of time.

Old Testament stuff is often bandied around as reasons to prove that God isn't all living but again with study and a greater insight that's not the case. It's very complicated but I highly recommend the book God is Stranger by Krish Kandiah. He works a lot with refugees which he refers to in this book and that the hardness of life and the uncomfortable bits in the bible raise valid questions about God's goodness and authority. He explains it all very well, it's quite deep and challenging but excellent. If you're thinking along those lines I'd recommend.

"highly accurate in its prophecies" - go on, show some

"written outside of time" - i.e. long after the time it is supposed to refer to, making "prediction" somewhat easier...

So, some of the most famous ones relate to the crucifixion. (Psalm 22 and Zech 12) that relate to crucifixion. PS 22 refers to tearing at hands and feet (also translated as pierced but let's go with the least specific translation as I like to do that to test how believable it is). It also refers to being naked and displayed (as Jesus was) and people casting lots for his clothes (as the soldiers did) and many other things...have a read. It's honestly quite mind-bending.

So I took this and tried to work out how much of a lucky guess that was. How could they predict that there would be a messiah and that he'd be crucified? Very unlikely as they were expecting a literal king not an ordinary person. So then because I like to tug at these threads I looked into when crucifixion came about, and it wasn't until 400 years after PS 22 was written in Persia.

There's other scriptures that refer to the crucifixion and the suffering king (IS 53 is a very famous one). So, so unlikely especially when you look at the cultural expectation of the time. The messiah was eagerly awaited and no-one really expected them to suffer literally and physically.

That's just a few examples relating to one issue (the crucifixion).

There's loads, loads, loads more. For example in Daniel. The angel comes and chats to D and as he's leaving he says that he has to go sort out some stuff that's going to happen in Greece. This happens 200 years later.

Written outside of time refers to stuff in the NT explaining stuff that happened in the OT that could never be explained before. An example of this is Jesus comparing himself to the bronze snake in Exodus. Something that had stumped religious leaders at the time for a couple of thousand years. Also the location of the tribes, their specific locations and sizes that were given to Moses made a perfect cross shape. So many things like that but I think I've probably written a lot. Also it really wasn't written that long after the events. Take John for example, the latest secular scholars agree it was written is 85-90AD but most believe as early as 50-55AD. Seeing as Jesus died in 33AD that's astonishly soon after. John refers to the temple as still standing when it fell in 67-70AD so it was likely written before then.

I flipping love theology and studying the bible. I used to read it trying to rip it apart but I just can't. A bit like I think it's the Case for Christ book I mentioned. I think that's the one that was written by s jydge who started writing a book with the intention of disproving it but became a believer through his studying. It's fascinating. Even if you're not a believer I highly recommend reading the bible. It's a remarkable book.

Oh dear, is that the best you can do? Something in one part of the bible "predicts" something in another part of the bible!

You do realise that there's actually no evidence that the Jesus character ever existed, and no corroboration that the "events" that are "predicted" ever actually happened?

You could honestly only think that is amazing if starting from the position of unquestioningly accepting everything in the bible as fact, when there is no evidence to suggest that any of it is!

Within academic peer to peer reviewed circles there isn't any real debate about whether Jesus existed. An accessible article is here www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died

The question about who Jesus was (and is to Christians) is far more interesting.

More people, including academics who are writing peer reviewed article, are questioning whether or not he actually existed. Nobody who believes he did can actually prove it. however much you might want to believe it, there is still very much doubt - to claim otherwise shows a pre-existing bias.

Oh dear, is that the best you can do?

I have no interest in doing my best/ on this thread. You asked for prophecies and I gave you some. Whether you believe or are intestested is a matter for you. You asked a question, I answered (civilly). If you wish to argue then that's a matter for you.

Read it or don't read it and continue to argue from a perspective of less knowledge. It's up to you. I've no interest in arguements or rudeness. Conversation and discussion? Always. Arguments and obstinance? Nah.

I have read the bible (which is more than a lot of Christians can say), but a prediction of something that happens in the same book shouldn't really cause amazement.

which is more than a lot of Christians can say yes I agree which is strange really.

but a prediction of something that happens in the same book shouldn't really cause amazement. even when written over thousands of years by douzens of different people from different faiths? (Jews converting to Christianity?)

Particularly when the result of the prediction is written considerably after the prediction and with absolutely no corroborating evidence that it actually happened - Yes!

Even the book itself has the Jesus character choosing to ride in to town on a donkey because that was what a prediction says!

Start small, commit to reading one of the gospels maybe. As you read ask yourself these questions:

1. Imagine you are one of the people you are reading about, how does it apply to you now?

1. Why was that specific scripture (as you read it) recorded? Is there a reason it was important to know about it. (Big picture stuff basically)

1. Is there anything you can apply from what you are reading.

You may want to keep a notebook, you may want to use a hard copy Bible and scribble your notes in it. There are plenty of free applications for your devices or online that include notes and audio. Some of the easiest ways to read scripture (read not study so you get used to it) I have found is to have the audio playing as you read. I do this daily, it gives me 5-30 minutes of time to tune out the noise of the day.

Pray to know the truth, pray to know if Jesus is your Saviour. It's hard. Especially if you don't have a religious background. Suddenly talking outloud can be daunting, but just be honest. You may choose to record your prayers to write up later. You might find keeping prayers as a written letter helps you get your thoughts together.

Welcome to a whole new family, and the greatest love you will ever know. Xxx

Quite telling how it's only the atheist that's suggesting you read the whole bible yourself without someone else telling you what to think...

That would be because the atheist is encouraging people to read the Bible literally which is something only fundamentalists do. The Bible is in translation from cultures thousands of years old. Unless you are an expert in koine Greek and Hebrew you are stuck and need the help of translators. For Christians the most important bits of the library of books we call the Bible are those about Jesus so it makes sense to start with the gospels.

Quite telling how it's only the atheist that's suggesting you read the whole bible yourself without someone else telling you what to think... no you aren't the only one advising OP to read the bible I believe in my second post I advised studying scripture.

Particularly when the result of the prediction is written considerably after the prediction so are you suggesting that a man would go to crucifixion (that wasn't invented at the time if the prediction) to prove a point? And hope they stripped him naked? And hope they cast lots for his clothes? And just hope that one of his mates would betray him for money? And hope that the money from the betrayal would be used to buy a potters field? That's some serious winging it if that's the case.

and with absolutely no corroborating evidence that it actually happened - Yes! well this is something that I really can't get into in a short post (and I strongly suspect you'd reject anything I say anyway as you have previous times that you've asked a question and I've answered). The life and death of Jesus has much corroborating evidence. In fact that you would say that there is "absolutely none" makes me think that you don't actually know as much as you are making out as even the vast majority of secular scholars that have studied biblical theology accept his life and death. The question is very rarely "did he exist" as it's so widely accepted that he did. The question is "what happened after he died".

And with that, I think I'm out from further chats with you as I get the impression you want an arguement and, as much as you are being respected, I don't think that respect is or will be returned. Also this is beginning to hijack OP's thread.

OP, enjoy your new faith and new bunch of church family. Exciting times!

OP,

"The life and death of Jesus has much corroborating evidence."

Please share this with me! I have been looking for it for years!