Is being pubicly atheist a recent thing, especially re. collective worship?

[wanderings]

Firstly, I'm taking no sides - I had strong atheist views when I was younger, but gradually changed my mind.

There are many threads on MN about this, especially annoyance by atheist parents about collective worship in schools, and I have been wondering if it's recent that people have felt so strongly about it. I find it hard to imagine buses in the 1980s and 90s saying "there probably is no God", or parents taking their children out of assembly, or people muttering and sneering in the back row when attending baptisms (under duress): if it happened I was blissfully ignorant.

Speaking for myself, I rebelled with my heart and soul when my parents suddenly dragged me to catholic church every Sunday when I was 9. I saw the whole thing as utter nonsense, and a waste of valuable weekend time. However, I gradually changed my mind as an adult, but went CofE rather than catholic. I took the view that you did not have to take a literal view of the Bible and the church's teachings; as a child I was very literal-minded. I also love the sense of community in church.

Does anyone think it is because a generation of young adults are remembering being forced to obediently sing hymns, hear prayers from their school days, had to learn "impossibilities" such as the great flood, and are now making sure their children won't have to do the same, now that they have the right to say something which they didn't as a child?

Let me put it this way for you, Bert, the persons in question from whom this absurd ideology arose were self-confessed radfems. I haven't seen them around the forums lately so they have either left Mumsnet to form a Group Against Gobbling (G.A.G) or they have been forced to name change due to their risible dogma.

I doubt there are any feminists left on mn thear days who would readily admit they're radical.

*these

Ah. You think radical means extreme. Thought you did.

I'm a cheerfully open radical feminist- there are plenty of us about!

My mum wasn't keen on me going to church but didn't let me know till years later. I wasn't baptised and there wasn't a big broadcast about this and not going to church wasn't a big deal. This was all back in the 70s

I never made a big deal about not having my dc baptised and when DD was told to pray at school - she said the teacher told her off for not closing her eyes whilst praying - I told her it was up to her and no one could force her to pray as its her mind

No, not extreme exactly, just deranged.

Yes of course radical means extreme, what's your point?

I am quite possibly the angriest person on mn at the moment because my pregnancy hormones feel ragey, I am in agonising pain with inflammation of the pelvis and the batteries ran out in my tens machine. I'm also out of Lion's fruit salads and am very close to weeping.

Quite frankly, those are just excuses. Why do you feel the need to keep coming to offend people and then go for the sympathy?

Why not start a thread to get support instead of goading people and derailing threads if you can't control your emotions?

wanderings can I come to your church then? our biscuits are always sainsbury's basics digestives.

Because a radical feminist is not an "extreme" or "deranged" feminist. A radical feminist is someone who thinks that society has to fundamentally change for the sexes to have full equality. Some feminists think that existing structures can be "tweaked" to produce equality- radical feminists think that the way society works at the moment is bad for everyone except a few at the top and that there has to be radical change for the benefit of everyone.

The people you are talking about, if they exist, are called "loons"

Wanderings, I would like to address at least part of your original question in the hope it might offer a different perspective.

So this is my personal take on the issue of how childhood experiences of Christianity in school might lead to a preference for a curriculum that sticks to comparative religion taught by a scrupulously neutral teacher.

In the primary school I attended, Christianity was very much woven into the fabric of the school day. There were daily prayers, hymns, Bible stories and tales of saintly missionaries converting heathens.

I did not feel coerced into joining in, anymore than I felt coerced into doing arithmetic. It was just part of the day and you went along with it. My difficulty with the whole situation lay in the discriminatory propaganda. The clear and unequivocal message was that being Christian was a necessary prerequisite if you wished to be moral, that it was impossible to aspire to the same heady heights of goodness without faith in the Christian message.

When I was eight years old, the teacher asked the class to put their hands up if they attended Sunday school. Every single child raised a hand except my twin brother and me. The teacher was shocked. She asked my brother and me again to make sure. We were quiet and diligent and she no doubt had assumed until then that we were good Christian children. Her disappointment in realizing that we weren’t was palpable. I felt ashamed. I wanted to be good in her eyes so badly, I wanted to please her, although I knew, even at eight, that I couldn’t find a way to embrace the creed that would allow her to look upon me more favourably.

That feeling of not being sufficiently moral, no matter how hard I try to be good, has stayed with me into adult life, irrational though it might seem.

That is why I am relieved my DS has had a very different experience. No teacher has tried to sell him the line that being a Christian means that you are – or can even aspire to be – more honorable than others.

Assemblies at his secondary school are secular. Nothing else would make sense. The school is a wonderful melting pot of many creeds and cultures. ‘Opt in’ opportunities for worship, reflecting the religious demographic of the school, are offered at lunchtimes.

I hope one day that all schools will adopt a similar strategy.

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I'm derailing the thread! Is that a joke?! Who was it who demanded to know the underlying message of my username so that they could holler their feminist angst about sexual slavery?

I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm telling you why I feel preternaturally 'aaaaargh!'

Bert, I know what the dictionary definition of a radical feminist is. The ones I've had the misfortune of debating with on mn were indeed loons.

I doubt there are any feminists left on mn thear days who would readily admit they're radical.

Erm plenty including me.

And I enjoy fellatio and did the night feeds because I breastfed. Hth.

"holler their feminist angst about sexual slavery"

That just feels a bit, I don't know, flippant.

I get that you find all this stuff hilarious, but, I don't know, it's just not really very funny.

Why shouldn't people have strong feelings about this stuff? I would hope that most people do TBH, rather than seeing it as a bit of a joke. I understand people eye rolling about "minor" stuff, but this type of thing, yeah I don't understand. I don't get the joke.

"Bert, I know what the dictionary definition of a radical feminist is. The ones I've had the misfortune of debating with on mn were indeed loons."

So why are you calling them radical feminists then? I don't think you're saying seriously bonkers things because you're a Christian- I think you're saying them because you're a bit bonkers.

Because they identified as radical feminists.

So is this the sort of face of modern christianity then?

Bursting onto threads telling everyone to shut the fuck up
Having a laugh about women (who may or may not be feminists and may or may not be radical) getting upset about stuff being done to women and girls around the world
Justifying this on the basis that someone said something disagreeable on a thread about BF some years back
Calling other posters "hysterical"
Implying that athiests who give people lifts to help out at the food bank are somehow up to no good...

Your views are very far from mainstream, I think? None of the practicing christians I know come out with this sort of stuff. Not even the ones next door who follow the male head of household, women dress modestly and used to punish their children by caning them with a stick have ever come out with anything like this. I don't think they think I'm a "hater". I always have a nice chat with them when we bump into each other before I make my escape when the advice about physical punishment starts.

Can someone please tell Disco I'm no longer engaging with her. It is clear she cannot read or understand very well.

So we're about 12 now are we.

I just had another look at your opening post:

"I actually believe that mn is not representative of society's attitude to collective worship. Mners are largely left-wing liberals who are terrified of their children worshipping a 'patriarchal' God and showing them up in Waitrose. Wildly ironic that they are far more tolerant of that misogynistic religion that prohibits female drivers and condones FGM."

You were kind of coming in swinging from the off, weren't you.

If you dislike MNers and women so much I wonder what you get out of posting on the site? Do you just enjoy a bit of argy-bargy? Which, tired as it is to point out, isn't terribly christian is it.

Well, you identified as a Christian!

DiscoGoGo - you're not living up to your name!

Just think, while you've been gettin' down and out about the liars and the dirty dirty cheats of the world.....

Oh so that's who taylor swift is! I like that song I didn't know who it was, just saw the video I can relate to that, very good

TheSwallowing I prefer Prosecco...

I am a Christian. I sort of woke up to feed (ebf), but DH brought my DC to me and changed them afterwards...and worked whilst I was on maternity leave.

OP regarding your question, yes I think atheists are more vocal now. I'm not exactly sure why. Although people of my DP's generation would describe themselves as Christian but still align themselves with more 'new age beliefs' esoteric beliefs, such as spiritualism, fortune telling, horoscopes, various superstitions and 'lucky charms' etc. But the 60s and 70s was open to a lot....So not sure they were more Christian per se. Perhaps now we are less culturally Christian and the people who hold onto Christianity are actually more likely to believe...maybe.

As a former christian of almost 10 years, I became an atheist because science could explain more than faith could. Although I respect people and their right to believe what they want, no religion and it's belief system should be beyond criticism and questioning.

I won't tolerate religious beliefs being taught as fact until my DC are able to fully understand the difference between belief and fact.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts on the topic and I must go to bed before I talk a load of crap while under the influence of tiredness

Good night ladies. I hope to find you still here in the morning