Playgroups pushing religion - what to do?

[madamez]

I take Ds, who is 2, to lots of playgroups, any of which are in church halls or similar, and some of which are run by church organisations. We stopped going to one, partly because of changing his nursery days due to my work patterns but partly because there were a few too many invitations to Bilble study class. Now, the newest one we have started going to is run by the Salvation Army - we preiviously went ot another SA one but the newer one is much nearer where we live - and much nicer in terms of equipment, activities, etc. Trouble is, at the end of singing time, they sing a hymn/prayer. While this is not going to bother DS in the least, it annoys me that they are peddling this stuff in a playgroup that's supposed to be for the local community (which is very diverse). Should I say something ie ask if it's necessary to ''believe" to attend the group? Or should we just go elsewhere...

sorry - i know what you mean but I'm not very sympathetic unless it is funded by a non church group (council/sure start?). if it's staffed by Christian volunteers, then I guess that's what you might expect. I guess there is no harm in speaking to the staff though, I'm sure they won't bite your head off!, or perhaps you could just leave before the end of that's when they do the prayer? Maybe you need to start looking round for some other types of groups like tumble tots, music groups, yoga classes etc that you pay more for but that don't come with a christian message if you would feel more comfortable with that?

our local mums & toddler group was at the church hall. apart from a little prayer at the end nothing religious was mentioned by the lady who ran the group or by the mums there. it was the lady who did the tea and coffee that kept telling me to come to 'her' church on the other side of town and she told DD a few times 'jesus loves you' etc. DD didn't even know who jesus was at that point. it bugged me a lot, but kept being friendly. when DD left (clashed with nursery) it was quite a relief. i will take DS to the sure start centre as there is no religious connection to it.

I think you need to go elsewhere if you consider the leaders to be "peddling" a message you don't agree with (although I would expect they might be upset that you see it in those terms?)
The way the groups operate is obviously going to be decided by the beliefs of those who run them - irrespective of whether they have nicer equipment and activities!
I don't they would expect everyone to "believe" if the group is for the local community, but everyone who attends should at least respect that their religion plays a part in the way they live.

"I doubt they would expect..."
Doh!

I understand where you are coming from- my boys attend a school that is deeply religious and I really struggle. However, they attend becauuse it is the ONLY school they can attend (thereby my objection being based on that- I care not about C of E schools etc as long as there are alternatives too). PLaygroup s neither compulsory or, by the sounds of it, limited in supply in typur area so I ama fraid I consider it would be unfair to ask what is a Christian group to stop praying etc.

i dont think that sayin a prayer at the end of the playtime is 'peddling' religion. This is a playgroup organised by a religious organisation so it should really be expected.

If you dont like it then I would go elsewhere

It's the Sally Army, they are doing what they believe in. It's hardly indoctrination.

why can't you just leave beforehand if it bothers you? i'm not christian but have been to church linked playgroups it has never really bothered me in the past. I explain it to my dkids as other people's beliefs and we respect their beliefs.
I think as it is salvation army playgroup it is perfectly reasonable for them to want to say a prayer at the end.

Blimey! I think if you were to ask them if you have to be a believer to attend the group, they'd say no. But if what you are really asking them is to stop singing a hymn at the end of the group because you don't like it, then even the tolerant Sally Army might hint that you look elsewhere for nice activities for DS!

Playgroups run by Christian groups are by their very nature going to have a Christian agenda - you can't expect anything else. They are not "community" groups in that respect, they are run by, and to the beliefs of, a Christian organisation. If that offends you then you need to go somewhere else.

I didn't attend playgroups run by Churches for that very reason, although I was assured that for most of them you didn't have to stay for the prayers and hymns if you didn't want to. Maybe you would consider taking your son out before the religious aspect starts, if the organisers would be happy with that? Although you should be prepared for them to refuse.

What type of local community is it?

If there is a lot of "diversity", is there a lot of scocial deprivation as well? The Salvation Army have a long record of helping those less fortunate than themselves, and don't force religion down you throat. I suspect they are supplying a valuable socail service, and a prayer or hymn is a small price to pay for that. Anyway there are worse things that could be peddled...

It really annoys me tbh, to hear people choosing to attend religious playgroups/schools etc then moaning about the religion! I think you've got a flippin' cheek tbh.

Exactly, tissy, when you think of what the Sally Army do...

It's also worth bearing in mind that many people of other faiths feel more at home in a Christian setting than in a very secular one, even though they may choose not to join in with he prayer/hymn.

at my spellings of SOCIAL

I'm really at a loss to know what the problem is. Are you actually criticizing the christians for setting up all the playgroups? So it's a diverse area - what a shame there's no other groups within that diversity that want to give up time and resources to provide a facility like this.

If you're not "keen on all that sort of rubbish", then I don't understand why you go there at all.
Perhaps I have misunderstood your posts, but it seems rather unfair that these people have made you and your child welcome, but you see their beliefs as rubbish, and attend their group because it is "much nicer in terms of equipment, activities, etc"?

Oh I had a long post typed out then read the thread - you have a choice in the matter, so if you are uncomfrotable with it, then don't go.
Where I used to live, there were few playgroups that weren't church-related. I used to go to a huge one, and just skipped the religious bit at the beginning. I am a fervent believer in not forcing a religious agenda on those who have no choice but to attend eg state schools, but fgs, you are free to not attend.
The playgroup I went to had a number of people who went round chatting to lonely mothers (or rather, mothers who were having a five-minute breather and a cup of coffee in peace ) but they never mentioned religion. If they had, I would have stopped going, but I did sort of assume the point of them was community outreach...

i think you can attend and not say anything re the religious aspect

or leave before the end

a little bit backhanded to attend a group..knowing it is run by the sally army....because it has excellent facilities and then got cross because they sing a hymn, pray or invite you to join a bible study class. You could just accept the hospitality and not say anything...

or contact your HV - they tend to have lists of local playgroups

sure start, parenting 2000 ( not sure if that is nationwide or regional) and NCT all run regular local groups ..perhaps one of those might be more to your taste..

what is wrong with a hymn or prayer to thank god ( whichever god you believe in) for a good day or what ever else it might be?

Well, if you believe there is no god and children shouldn't be indoctrinated with stories as if they are real...then there is a lot wrong with it.
If you strongly suspect your local council is happy to have churches running playgroup facilities in order to pick up their slack in providing services, then you might just go along and use the services, willingly given, and choose to ignore the religious aspects.
I agree that complaining about it is crass.
Don't forget that playgroups usually charge, purposely welcome 'unbelievers' and that one can always donate toys etc if one feels bad about 'duping' them (I did.)

Madamez - I guess this is all giving you a bit of a headache; I would really urge you to try and look at the positive things you get from this group and weigh that up against the things you feel uncomfortable with. Also, it could be worth finding out more about Christianity in itself, rather than just looking at the example of Christians you come across so you can understand where these people are coming from and which aspects you are un/happy with as regards bringing up your child. I really hope you manage to find the balance you are looking for.