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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

So how would you feel if a friend, you have bent over backwards to help, turns round and says you're going to hell

68 replies

Twiglett · 20/11/2006 09:59

because she's a baptist .. and you're not religious

am kind of stunned at this one

it was intimated that I was damned for all eternity and yet all I have done is bend over backwards to be helpful and kind and probably follow closely the tenets of her religion without actually being a member of it

OP posts:

sunnysideup · 20/11/2006 10:48

In answer to the thread title, I would feel "oh blimey this friend is not an intelligent human being but is actually rather stupid".

And then I would wonder if I wanted to spend any more minutes of my life talking to this person....when someone can think something so foolish, do the rest of their thoughts interest me at all? Is the game worth the candle, basically.....

VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/11/2006 10:59

Okay, well, if I was religious/followed a faith. I would be offended. But, since I dont believe in 'Hell', I couldnt possibly be offended about being told to go somewhere that doesnt, IMO, exist.

But that's just me.

You said that she is a friend, and you say you have bent over backwards for her - which is lovely. But you say she is not one of your "best friends" at school and that is weird for you because she considers you as one, so I'm not entirely sure where you are coming from.

If she is not that good a friend, and you dont believe in 'Hell' - whats to worry about? Are you peeved that she hasnt been very grateful to you about your helping her?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/11/2006 11:02

Sorry - i know you werent "told to go to hell" - bad phrasing. I mean I wouldnt be offended by someone suggesting I would end up in 'hell' or 'eternal damnation'.

KathyMCMLXXII · 20/11/2006 11:04

Sorry, I disagree with everyone here (and I'm an atheist!)

People choose their religion for all kinds of reasons, incl. family background, random friends dragging them along to mission meetings, kind of social life it provides, etc.
Once you've picked a religion (or it's picked you) you're stuck with a whole bundle of beliefs, some of which you will feel at home with, others you will be uncomfortable with.
You then have to decide - do I pick and choose the bits I don't like, or do I say, well, I've signed up to the whole package and will have to go along with even the bits I don't like?
I was always amazed by the student Christians I knew at college who were lovely people and yet held very homophobic views because that was what they felt their religion told them, but surely in some ways there was a kind of integrity in the fact that they didn't just pretend the bits they didn't like weren't there. (Obviously the issue of homophobia and Christianity is much much bigger but my point here is just that this was what they sincerely believed their religion was telling them.)

I don't believe that Twiglett's friend actually wants her to go to hell - she just believes (rightly or wrongly) that her religion says that the unpleasant truth is that she will.

FWIW I think if we enquired more closely into what an awful lot of people thought we would find that they thought we were damned or immoral or somehow depraved, whether for not going to church, or having sex outside marriage, or drinking alcohol or whatever. As long as they still act nicely to us I don't see any point in making an issue of it.

KathyMCMLXXII · 20/11/2006 11:05

x-posted with VVV

wannaBe1974 · 20/11/2006 11:12

I think the problem with very devoutly religious people is that religion is such a big part of their life ? no, in actual fact, religion Is their life, and they find it impossible to comprehend that others can, or would want to, live without God in their lives.

I have a ?friend? who is very much like this. Luckily for me she lives in South Africa though and I speak to her maybe every two/three years, but she is very judgmental. If you ask her how she is she says she is ?blessed?, she told me to prey to God for forgiveness because I had lived with, and thus had sex with, dh before we were married, and she split with the only boyfriend she has ever had because he ?came between me and god?.

I don?t think it?s so much the ?you will go to hell? that would bother me, but the fact that people who spout these kinds of ?preachings? believe that they are, in some way, better than me because they believe in something I don?t, and that their lives are better because they have found God and my life must in some way be inferior because I haven?t welcomed God into my heart.

If you can live with her religious side, then you could be the better person and still be a friend to her, but avoid discussions about religion, if that?s at all possible.

Alternatively ?

A friend was once stopped by some ?bible bashers? in the street who were preaching the word of whatever religion they follow, and when they said something about ?going to heaven?, she turned round and said ?well, if heaven is full of people like you, im not entirely sure I want to go there anyway.?

Ready · 20/11/2006 11:16

But surely even if she believes Twiglett (sorry) will be going to hell, that is her choice. But to tell her that she will be going to hell is not necessary and I personally think is rude and not friendly behaviour.

It's happened to a group of us from a baptist friend. They must be told to preach at every opportunity???

bloss · 20/11/2006 11:17

Message withdrawn

bloss · 20/11/2006 11:19

Message withdrawn

bloss · 20/11/2006 11:27

Message withdrawn

VeniVidiVickiQV · 20/11/2006 11:29

Twiglett said that "it was intimated that I was damned for all eternity...."

That doesnt sound like outright saying it or shoving it down someones throat and it was discussed in context during a discussion about Christmas (christian festival?)

KathyMCMLXXII · 20/11/2006 11:29

Agree with Ready that it is rude to tell about it. However, if you seriously believe someone you like is going to hell and you want to save them from that, maybe you would feel you need to warn them and that trumps good manners?

DimpledThighs · 20/11/2006 11:38

If you don't get much from her as a friend just leave it.

If you value her friendship and this is the only obsticle then tell her that what she said offended / upset you / whatever it did to you and say that you value her friendship but it is probably for the best that you don't discuss religion in the future. If she cannot accept this you will either have to put up with her (IMO quite narrowminded) approach to life or consider if you get enough from her to put up with this.

I am an atheist and I a close friend of mine is an evangelical christian. I never thought I wouold be so close to someoen with such differeing views from mine. we have an unread not talking about it rule, appart from if it comes up (school assemblies, sunday activities, discpline etc.) and then it can be a bit tense, but e both respect each other. The only time it became really hard was when we talked baout homosexuality - my BF is gay and she ascribes to the homophobic side of christianity and we ended up with me walking away from her inthe playground with her quoting the bible at me but even then we managed to preserve the friendship by never speaking of it.

Depends, deep down, how much she means to you and how much you are able to brush off her cooments and how much she is able to keep quiet for the sake of the friendship.

Personally I couldn't tolerate it.

fairyjay · 20/11/2006 11:38

Stand to be corrected on this, but I think that Baptists believe we are all sinful, and can only be forgiven (and get to Heaven) if we repent of our sins, and ask God to come into our lives.

Furthermore, it is then your duty to preach the Gospel, and bring as many people to Jesus as possible.

So by saying it, she was doing what her belief tells her she should.

I had friends who were Baptists as an impressionable teenager - my mum has never quite gotten over me saying she wouldn't get to Heaven!

Blu · 20/11/2006 11:52

I would be teeth gnashingly exasperated, but, agreeing with kathyMCM, I probably wouldn't take it personally. The woman probably / possibly feels sad that as far as she is concerned, all people who don't do whatever baptists do will, unfortub=nately, go to hell....it doesn't mean she is ungrateful for your help and support, it perhaps makes her even sadder that, as far as she is concerned, you won't be alongside her as her friend in heaven.

Is she friendly and nice to you in return? Dies she do favours for you (or would she if she wasn't under such family pressure?).

People do hold absolute views of some sort in all religions. It would be a lot more tactful if she did not tell you that she fears for your spiritual future, but it doesn't sound as if she is screaming 'go to hell!!' at you!

I would be exasperated that she didn't appear tpo see the help that you have given her as a mark of your innate goodness. For me , that is where humanist beliefs don't get enough credit...that you can be charitable, generous, adopt every moral and compassionate approach to the world, but in a few religious eyes, you are still not 'worthy' and your morality is questionable.

Original poster

Twiglett · 20/11/2006 12:22

I think Kathy has it spot on tbh .. she is always lovely and pleasant it is just weird to realise that she truly believes we are born in sin ie look at my babies' faces they are sinful?? WTF?? .. and damned to hell for not taking 'jesus into our hearts' ... I just find it difficult to respect a person who is a committed follower of a religion and then to suddenly realise what that belief systems actually means in terms of self

As an individual this friend is totally to be admired .. a single parent, foster parent, adopted a seriously disabled child .. brings up lovely children, does as much as she can for the community so if I put it in balance I benefit more from our relationship than she does .. I am in awe of her compassion and ability to do things that I personally could not so if I have helped see her through a difficult time it was only because she is such an amazing person that she deserves nothing less tbh

OP posts:

Jimjams2 · 20/11/2006 12:32

I would think she had been indoctrinated and ignore that judgement and carry on as normal. Haven't read other responses...

TheHighwayCod · 20/11/2006 12:32

TWIG
did I Help this person too?

Original poster

Twiglett · 20/11/2006 12:34

yes I thnk you gave me some advice re housing situation

OP posts:

FioFio · 20/11/2006 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

Twiglett · 20/11/2006 12:39

people really believe that if they happen to be IN a religion that they automatically go to heaven yes .. and others don't

If there is a heaven then this person is definitely worthy of a place .. I just find it weird to realise that in her eyes I wouldn't be no matter what I did on a humanistic level

OP posts:

bran · 20/11/2006 12:43

I think that perhaps she feels the spiritual side of life as strongly, or perhaps more strongly, than the physical side. I'm an atheist myself but if I had a friend who had decided that she didn't need fruit or veg in her life and neither did her children I might be concerned enough to say something because she could be damaging her children's health. Possibly your friend feels that you are damaging your child's future and couldn't help but say it. Personally I would just say that her beliefs are not mine and you'd rather not discuss it.

As an aside, I once asked a very religious friend of mine how she felt about my atheism, and she said that she worried about it a bit but that there was no point in talking to me about it or trying to convert me because afterwards I would still be atheist and she might lose a friend.

puddle · 20/11/2006 12:44

when I have spoken to someone I know very well on this point she hads said to me that

she lives as good a life as she can according to her religious beliefs
I live as good a life as I can according to my own moral code

and that it is absolutely not her place to judge whether she, I or anyone else will go to heaven - that's God's job.

Which I liked.

puddle · 20/11/2006 12:45

when I have spoken to someone I know very well on this point she hads said to me that

she lives as good a life as she can according to her religious beliefs
I live as good a life as I can according to my own moral code

and that it is absolutely not her place to judge whether she, I or anyone else will go to heaven - that's God's job.

Which I liked.

fennel · 20/11/2006 12:46

It's not that unusual a view. I've had various friends who thought it. I do tend not to see many of them these days.

and most of my family think it. Which is tedious. they are harder to never see (unfortunately) but at least they don't actually say such things any more.

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