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Original poster

Publishing Gratitude

30 replies

CeleryAndCarrots · 23/04/2015 09:05

Hi,
I am a long-time lurker, and have just joined Mumsnet to publish this prayer for favours granted:

Dear Heart of Jesus in the past I have asked for many favours. This time I ask you this very special one (mention favour). Take it dear Heart of Jesus and place it within your own broken heart where your Father sees it. Then in His merciful eyes it will become your favour, not mine. Amen.

Say this prayer for 3 days, promise publication and favour will be granted, never know to fail.

Thank you.

OP posts:

Vivacia · 23/04/2015 11:32

Would you explain a bit further celery?

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 23/04/2015 13:20

Hi Vivacia,

Sure - to give the background to my post: I'm a lone parent with a lot on my plate. I've really been struggling and wasn't sure what decisions were best for me to make, and needed clarity on a path to take. I'm being deliberately vague.. so apologies as I don't want to be outed in RL.

My dad, who is very religious, (RC) gave me the above prayer, and said it works for him. I have said it every day - for longer than 3 days in my case. I just kept saying it.

The help I'm getting to do something difficult is quite astounding. Random conversations, finding information and other coincidences have turned a very difficult issue for me into a simple series of steps. And as a result of that, life seems brighter, and simpler, and easier than before. I feel guided and protected iykwim.

Because I promised publication, I posted it here.

Hope that helps :)

OP posts:

Vivacia · 23/04/2015 13:42

So when you say it's "never known to fail" that's just in your opinion, isn't it?

I'm glad that this belief has brought you some comfort, but I think it's dangerous to peddle things like this. What about another desperate person who tries this and doesn't get their "favours granted"? How might they feel? Given that perhaps they're not in the healthiest of places.

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 23/04/2015 13:56

Hi again,

Good hypothetical questions.

Obviously I only have my experience to relate from.

Just wondering - have you been this desperate person? And you felt a prayer like this didn't work for you ? How did you feel? What was the outcome for you?

If not, has anyone else been in this situation? It would be interesting to hear your viewpoints, as it would give us something other than one person's opinion and experience :)

OP posts:

fulltothebrim · 23/04/2015 14:06

You think christians should get favourable terms?

Vivacia · 23/04/2015 14:14

I think christians must pray for all sorts of things everyday, asking for the priest to stop sexually abusing them, asking for the folk in the next village to stop murdering them etc. I'm not convinced that a god is answering their prayers.

I think that it's generous of you to encourage this discussion

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 23/04/2015 15:25

Hi again

fulltothebrim - is your question directed at me?
If so, of course I don't!

So Vivacia, your response is still hypothetical then.

And yes, I'm just a generous kind of gal :)

OP posts:

Vivacia · 23/04/2015 15:30

Er, no, I don't think that sexual abuse and genocide are hypothetical.

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 23/04/2015 15:35

No,

I talking about your specific question: on it's "never known to fail"

and my subsequent questions:
"Just wondering - have you been this desperate person? And you felt a prayer like this didn't work for you ? How did you feel? What was the outcome for you?

If not, has anyone else been in this situation?"

You responded with "I think ..." .. and didn't give a fact-based answer on whether you tried this prayer and it failed... which was actually your point in the first place.

OP posts:

Vivacia · 23/04/2015 15:38

I did answer it factually. Christians pray for all sorts of help all of the time, they are still getting abused, murdered, raped, drowned. Prayer is therefore failing.

A lot.

Thistledew · 23/04/2015 15:40

Hi OP.

I'm an atheist, and have been all my life. There have been many times in my life when a series of unexpected events have led to a positive outcome when I least expected it.

As an atheist, I have done this without prayer.

Do you think that means that God answers "prayers" even if you don't pray? If so, what is the point of praying?

Or is it that God answers the prayers of those who pray, and the rest of us just get lucky? Does that mean that religious people are actually short on random good fortune, because the only way that they get good things is if god disperses one of his special favours?

Thistledew · 23/04/2015 15:41

I'm pleased for you that you have come through your difficult time.

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 23/04/2015 16:18

Hi again,

Thistledew, thanks for your kind words.

More good questions. It is really good to be made to reflect on what my beliefs are.

I sense that this is a very emotive subject, so I hope that I am not offending anyone. It is absolutely not my intention to do that.

Of course, it's very possible that my turnaround in fortunes would have happened if I didn't actively pray.

To answer your questions in random order, I believe in a loving God who loves us all, regardless of whether we believe in him or not.

However, for me, I choose to have a faith - it's a fairly recent active decision of mine to decide to have a faith. What this has meant is that I feel more 'protected' with the load lightened (if that makes sense?), and I have a lot more confidence in things working out, than before, when I really didn't think too much about faith etc. That has a positive knock-on effect for me, in my whole attitude and approach to life, and has an 'upward spiral effect', so prayer absolutely works for me in THAT way ... kind of by association if you like...

THEN, In the particular instance that I mention above, I decided to pray for a specific resolution to something. It was something I have been trying to resolve for years. As that particular prayer has the 'publication' condition on it, I took that on board, and 'promised publication' and here we all are :) (And, as mentioned, it was resolved, in quite an amazing way).

These questions are great:
Do you think that means that God answers "prayers" even if you don't pray?

Well if it's a 'prayer', then you are praying, right? Maybe not in the traditional sense, however I'm sure God is living in the 21st century as well as the rest of us.

If so, what is the point of praying? - see above for my 'upward spiral effect'

You know the line 'Ask and you shall receive' - that's my approach to prayer... if I really want something to work out, I'd rather feel like I'm doing everything in my power to get it resolved, including asking God to help, as well as taking whatever practical steps I can myself.

Does it mean I believe God disperses more special favours if you pray? Hmmmmm I found this question difficult (and reading back I see this question is one I 'made up'!) ...... and yes, it probably does mean I think that!!!

Vivacia, you've veered off the actual specific question we were discussing there...

Anyway, Vivacia and Thistledew, thank you both for engaging with me. I didn't expect anyone to respond on this thread. And I certainly didn't expect to be discussing my faith on the internet today.

It's a bit intimidating really, even though this is anonymous ..... it feels like in this day and age it's so not PC to believe in God, or talk about prayer... and of course..... so uncool :) Ah well, I never was cool anyway ......

OP posts:

Vivacia · 23/04/2015 16:50

My belief in no gods is not due to being cool. You describe lots of things that sound lovely, but I'm not sure where publishing comes in to "ask and you shall receive".

Why did I veer from the discussion. You claim that gods answer prayers. I claim that lots of people, asking for serious help in serious situations don't have their prayers answered. Perhaps 21st century gods are only interested in helping people sell their car or find their lost bracelet.

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 24/04/2015 10:47

Vivacia,

The irony of this conversation is almost funny.

With your prompting, I have explained how prayers have worked for me, with my real, lived experience.

You persist with hypothetical examples and claim that "Prayer is therefore failing".

Don't you think that it's dangerous to peddle things like this. What about another desperate person who is put off attempting prayer because they are swayed by your opinion and misses out on the potential comfort that in my opinion as well as direct experience, people who pray receive? How might they feel? Given that perhaps they're not in the healthiest of places.

OP posts:

fulltothebrim · 24/04/2015 11:28

My mother is a born agan christian.

When my father was ternimally ill, her church told her that if she prayed hard enough his life would be spared. She prayed everyy waking moment for weeks.

He died.

She ended up feeling responsible for his death.

How does that fit in with your ideas OP?

Oscarandelliesmum · 24/04/2015 11:52

I was discussing my fear of flying with a dear (Christian) friend of mine and she urged me to remember that I would be safely in Gods hands. I just gaped at her and said that I was sure that plenty of the people on all the recently downed flights would have been Christians praying pretty damned hard at the time God 'took his hands away' from their flights. We changed the subject after that but the idea of prayer as a petition has never sat well with me. A lovely minister coming into my class to chat to the kids once was asked why God clearly does not answer prayers. He explained that praying is more a method for people to connect with God and tune in to his love....I liked that explanation because as Vivacia says clearly a lot of very fervent prayers go unanswered. A non hypothetical example Op would be all those poor souls that went down in the latest migrant boat tragedy.

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 24/04/2015 14:16

Oh fulltothebrim, your poor mum!

Her church were reckless and irresponsible to make such promises. Nobody can say whether another human being is going to live or die.

Oscarandelliesmum, this is lovely: praying is more a method for people to connect with God and tune in to his love

OP posts:

fulltothebrim · 24/04/2015 14:19

But celery - you are being just as reckless- can't you see?

Say this prayer for 3 days, promise publication and favour will be granted, never know to fail.

Original poster

CeleryAndCarrots · 24/04/2015 14:26

.... but my prayer WAS answered !

OP posts:

AtomicDog · 24/04/2015 14:34

My prayers Have never been answered.
However, there are more tears shed over answered prayers than unanswered.

fulltothebrim · 24/04/2015 14:39

You are as evil as my mother's church celery.

Oscarandelliesmum · 24/04/2015 14:43

Celery, I am so glad you find comfort in your faith, as I do in mine and my husband in his athiesm.
I just can't get to grips with a God that answers prayers. It is an issue, like the idea that God has a plan for our lives that I find tricky. It makes God sound capricious.... To grant some wishes and not others. If there is a plan to our lives it may well be that I am destined to die after an illness but saying people can change Gods mind if they beg him hard enough makes him sound like Steven Fry's God. Would love to hear other peoples views on this and resolve it in my head.

Vivacia · 24/04/2015 18:36

Her church were reckless and irresponsible to make such promises

But you did the same "Say this prayer for 3 days, promise publication and favour will be granted, never know to fail". Or do you think she failed to publish it and so the god changed its mind?

The irony of this conversation is almost funny. With your prompting, I have explained how prayers have worked for me, with my real, lived experience. You persist with hypothetical examples

I was raised Christian and taught to pray. I prayed that the sexual abuse would stop. I prayed for all sorts of things. Is that unhypothetical enough for you?

fulltothebrim · 24/04/2015 19:26

celery- you are peddling snake oil.

A very unsavoury business.

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