Christians with gay children?

[godanswerme]

Here goes ... I have been trying to pluck up the courage to post this thread for at least a couple of years.

I am asking Christians about their stance on their children being gay? My wonderful, beautiful, clever daughter came out to me when she was 16 - i was so proud of her and yet so worried as i was a fairly new Christian. I feel so lost because i know the bible has a lot to say about gay people and thats what i said to her that i was very proud of her coming out but i didn't know what to think in terms of our faith.

She has always been a believer and has lots of biblical passages on her tumbler - i don't know if she has ever really committed to jesus but i know that out of all of my kids she is the most with Faith (even when i wasn't a Christian i tried to bring them up with some sort of faith).

I suppose the thing i am trying to ask is - i am afraid if i go back to church ( i haven't been for two years and we have moved in the mean time so don't know how to find one here) I am afraid that if i go to church and get involved with one that they will find out about my DD and that i will be forever defending her and that i want so much to follow the faith that i found but i am ashamed to say i was afraid to go back to the church that i used to go to because neither me nor my daughter want religion to 'pray the gay away'.

This is who she is. this is how she is happy - she has been in a relationship for a year now and tells me she would hope to spend the rest of her life with this person. How can i tell her this is wrong according to the bible? I personally don't think it is - a committed relationship is something that she strove for and that i am so glad she found.

Im asking other Christians who have gay children, where can i find a gay friendly church? how can i find people who will love my dd for her choices and embrace her into being a born again christian? I sound so ignorant because i am. I have no idea where to start. the last thing i want her to be is ashamed of what she is - one thing i did learn when i did the alpha course is that God and Jesus love everyone and forgive those that ask for it. She and i both feel that she shouldn't have to ask for forgiveness for being the way that god made her ( i know some would disagree with that but i can vouch for the fact that she has always felt this way)

I want so much to go to church again - i didn't go for long and i don't feel like i can pray about all this - it keeps me awake at night because i either feel like i am bigoted ( which i am not) or that i can't have a personal relationship with Jesus because i and my lovely dd will be judged.

Any advice would be welcome - there is no point in flaming me over this as i have done it enough myself and it makes me very sad and depressed because i literally have no one to confide in who is a Christian.

Let me make it clear, i love my DD without question, her GF stays with us most weekends and she is lovely - i always prided myself on being open minded but i don't know how to go to church and be proud of my family inc dd when this is so frowned upon?

I don't understand your post Dione.

I was uncomfortable that the OP's worries were being dismissed, "why are other people's opinions important to you?". I think her concerns have some grounding.

But the OP clearly said that she was worried about other people's reaction. You made up the bit about her being worried that her god would condemn her DD to death and eternal punishment.

Well, why would anyone worry about a Christian be homophobic? Because they have persecuted gay people for hundreds of years because their god is on record saying they are an abomination, should be condemned to death and will suffer eternal punishment. He takes it pretty serious, he has more to say about it than paedophilia.

Seems a pretty reasonable thing to be concerned about if that's your religion.

Dont worry OP Christianity at its core is about love and non judgement and Jesus worked hard to try to change the old testament ways which is where the anti gay stuff comes from. Some christians do still hang on to these horrible bits and I feel this is not right atall as Jesus would never have judged like that, and in the new testament is shown as healing a gay man. God loves all people and its only mans confused interpretation that has created these stupid attititudes. Dont forget the bible also says a load of other mad stuff and stuff that everyone ignores completely (I believe some christians sometimes eat pork for example!).

Pope Francis has been fantastically progressive and aims for change in the traditional way gay people have been regarded so I am all for him. You may find the Methodists to be a good and welcoming church to try, certainly there are many gay people in their following and they seemed to have a better stance on equal marriage than the catholics! They are not different in their style of worship - fun and upbeat and welcoming and the service is very similar to any other denomination. Even the catholics however may be fine to worship with in the right place, my dh is catholic so we married in a catholic church and my priest was incedibly lovely and understanding of my disgust at the catholic churchs official stance, so I have to say that just because of an official stance (that Pope Francis may be looking to change) does not mean that all catholics are so ignorant.

I think it is wonderful that you are trying to find a welcoming place to worship, and it is shameful on christianity that this has become an issue. Jesus would have had all churches welcoming everyone with so much love!

But that's not the OP's concern, which you would know if you had read her posts Viv. Christians, like everyone else on the planet, are individuals, with their own thoughts, beliefs, worries and concerns.

You dismissed the OP's actual worry (regarding people) and then made up a completely different one regarding god.

godanswerme your faith certainly shines through. And your love for your dd. I am involved with various groups to do with LGBT issues, mostly just talking on the Internet and seeking to find better ways to communicate. I come from that evangelical church tradition that has been very opposed to gay people (on the whole - although in any church there may well be people who are supportive, and open and of course gay).

I am not gay and have no gay children but it was actually thinking about this 'issue' - what would I do if one of my kids was gay... that got me researching into this interesting area. Coming from a tradition that is very negative about gay relationships I can honestly say that I have met many Christians who do feel negative about homosexuality, although most are actually wanting to be loving to individual people. Sadly, they are blinkerd about what they think the Bible means when it say things, means they cannot really fully love gay people because they cannot accept them as gay!

Fortunately, more and more people are challenging these views and investigating for themselves what the Bible really says and obviously realising that it was written in a different time and it was written by people even if we believe they were inspired by God.

This is very long-winded but I wanted to be honest and fair because you may well encounter some form of prejudice in some churches and it is important to admit that, and for you to be able to protect yourself! For you to know what you believe and to be able to choose where you worship. You definitely do not want people telling you or your daughter negative messages about her sexual orientation.

But I also think it is fair to be realistic and to know that there are quite a lot of churches who would have a position on this and much as we might (almost all of us on this thread) feel it is wrong to be judgemental, it does exist. So you want to find a church that fits what you need, somewhere you will be welcomed with open arms, why would you want to worship in a place that did not welcome you!

I would certainly recommend taking a look here...

www.inclusive-church.org.uk/

In my humble personal opinion a number of Christians hold the views they hold because of the way they interpret the Bible. Not all Christians will choose to interpret the Bible this way but some will. Sadly, the churches that are pretty vibrant with lively music and all are also sometimes the ones that will take a very literal and in some cases I would say out of context interpretation of the whole subject around LGBT issues.

This is a very interesting video, it is long but it does discuss all the passages in the Bible that refer to same sex sex, and talks about the context in which these things were being discussed. EG NOT the context we have today! It is long but very much well worth watching for anyone who is interested.

I sincerely hope the church will change and I do not believe every word written in the Bible is from God, so I don't hold God responsible for our wrong attitudes as people!

Even in churches which are judgemental of gay people there will be a lot of ordinary pew-sitters who are working all this out for themselves whatever the church hierarchy actually believes so I sincerely hope they will change.

I pray that common sense and the love of God will prevail. I must also say that fear is a very big component of this issue and it is fear that drives these attitudes which others may label 'homophobic' attitudes but it is based (I believe) on a wrong understanding of what God is like and it is not personal, even if it feels personal at times.

Anyway, OP, I hope you find the right place to worship and please do not doubt your faith, it is shining through. Bless you, and your dd, she sounds fab.

Your daughter is created by God. God does not make mistakes, she is perfect. A Christian is commanded to Love God first and Love his fellow man as much as he loves God. A Christian who obeys God, loves your daughter. Anything less is not what pleases God.

I went to an Evangelical full on bible obedient Church, it worked for me at the time. I saw how a Church could be. I now go to a CofE church and plan to bring a lot of the good stuff with me.
Note, I learned more about Jesus in a few short weeks at CofE then I did at my previous church in years.

Do not feel conflicted, guilt and confusion is a tool of Satan. Go back to God and let God make it right. A relationship with Jesus is too important, especially if he called and you recognised his voice.

bab43 your post horrifies me. Your words are toxic.

Anything less is not what pleases God. yes and he could murder or carry out an act of mass genocide- as he has done in the past.
confusion is a tool of Satan really? Total shite.
Confusion, indecision, wresting with ideas are what makes us human.
And all the better for it.

Italiangreyhound - a humane and honest post.

Would you consider looking for a URC church? In my limited experience they are a very welcoming and liberal denomination, and have several gay ministers across their churches.

I do not believe the Bible condemns homosexuality. I believe it condemns sexual brutality - in biblical times women "belonged" to men to do with as their sexual desires dictated. For a man to treat another man that way would have been abhorrent - and considered an act of aggression / rape. It was fine in biblical times to rape women... Also in Old Testament time there would have been a lot of emphasis on reproduction (the women really just being baby making machines) so a homosexual relationship would have been a threat to the future of the tribe. Women didn't have FEELINGS or rights so what they wanted didn't come into it...

FWIW the bible mentions nothing at all about female homosexuality - it is all about the act of sodomy (if you look back at earlier translations) and certainly never talks of sex in relation to love.

We live in a different world and of course the God I believe in would celebrate love and your daughters faithful and loving relationship. I see no reason He wouldn't, His laws are there to protect us and teach us the right way to live, I see no logical reason God would condemn loving same sex relationships. Jesus never mentioned it either, and as a Christian I mainly stick with following him :)

Great post Italiangreyhound.

singlike this may be not be the right place for this question, but I'll risk it seeing as the OP hasn't been around for a bit.

Do you not wish that your god had devised for a book to be written giving humans guidance on how they should behave? Perhaps something about how Jesus was all about peace etc?

That's a huge question Viv, worthy of it's own thread. And absolutely nothing to do with this OP.

Vivacia, you mean the new testament?

Well, if people took that to be the word of god rasta I guess that would be what I'm suggesting. Do you think that the new testament does clarify what the old testament got wrong?

bab43 your post is very compassionate.

singlikethepianoMargot I've heard the URC is very accepting. I agree about your views about the early view of women in many cases. Although the Bible does contain some tender moments in relation to women and it is not true that it does not talk of sex and love.... the Song of Songs is a whole book about sexual love.

Also you say FWIW the bible mentions nothing at all about female homosexuality that is not true, it has as far as I am aware one sentence which is not positive but which many Christians would choose to interpret differently. I think it is only fair to deal with things how they are because if the OP does end up in a church which is less accepting then she should know what people might refer to.

Romans 1: 26 says "Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones." Now one argument aganst taking this passage literally is the idea that for gay men and lesbian women it is not natural for them to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. And that this passage is possibly talking about straight people who experimented with gay sex, perhaps when married to someone of the opposite sex. But you are right that most passages refer to men.

Lastly although I agree with you when you say "I see no logical reason God would condemn loving same sex relationships. Jesus never mentioned it either, and as a Christian I mainly stick with following him." Some Christians would refer to Jesus' reply to the question about divorce ... "

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?" - Matthew 19:4-5 -New International Version (NIV).

OP godanswerme if you are still reading please do not see my reply as in any way condemning you or your daughter I am explaining why some Christians disprove of gay relationships, they are not necessarily being homophobic (some may be) but they are interpreting The Bible differently.

OutwiththeOutCrowd and Vivacia Thank you.

Vivacia a very interesting question, but I think one for a thread of your own, please do message me if you start one and I will be happy to join it but I am not comfortable debating that here on the OP's personal thread.

I saw this thread had been reactivated this morning, and wanted to post, but was in a rush. I mainly wanted to post to join the number of pp's saying, I'm a Christian (Anglican) and not homophobic at all, nor do I know of anyone at the three churches I have attended in my life (two rural Anglican ones, one City one) who was. Not that I can vouch for everyone there, obviously, but I know gay people who attend, gay people might be mentioned (positively) in sermons and no one protests, etc etc.
Obviously some Christians are homophobic and use certain verses of the Bible to defend this. Some thoughtful discussion of this and different reactions to it on this thread.
The argument that has always stayed with me most (from a multi-faith lgtb event I attended many years ago), was about whole-text reading - a woman spoke, more eloquently than I ever could, about her bafflement, whatever individual verses of the OT might say, that anyone can read the NT and not come up with a whole-text reading that this is a book about accepting others, and unconditional Love. Which is the opposite of homophobia, obviously. Really struck a chord with me, and why I've always felt the way I do about my faith, and so angry and baffled about the hatred it can (sometimes) be used to justify.

Italiangreyhound - you obviously know your bible well and I have some patches in my knowledge! I had forgotten the passage in Romans, and I agree that it could be interpreted that female homosexuality is "un natural" ie wrong. I do not interpret it that way personally, and again it is about sexual sin and not relationships and love. I believe sexual sin is one of our main downfalls as humans and once of the causes of the world being broken.

Song of Songs! Of course, how could I overlook that! I've never liked it as a book though if I can be honest but i was obviously wrong about no sex=love in the bible

Thank you for following up my points, it is such an important issue that Christians need to be praying on hugely. For me, I think we should be promoting LOVE and FIDELITY - and promiscuity is a problem regardless of the sexual orientation. I just think God would rather see two women in love, happily faithful for their whole lives than see a heterosexual woman with many partners and one night stands etc.

Course God loves us all no matter what, huh :)

Why would a god not approve of a woman having multiple sex partners? On what basis is it "wrong"?

Has anyone mentioned the Rev Richard Coles, yet? Broadcaster, ex-pop star and currently vicar of Finedon in Northhamptonshire? And his husband, the Rev. David Coles? Their parish isn't exactly a hip, urban, anything-goes big city playground, and their parishoners seem to cope.

They even seemed to cope on the recent publication of Richard C's 80's memoirs, Fathomless Riches, which I gather has quite a lot about how active he was before he met the Rev. David.

ArcheryAnne - I believe his autobiography is full of things you might think the good people of Finedon would be shocked at.

I know people who have rabid anti-homosexual views - nice enough people, can be kind but fill me with similar dread to UKIP supporters.
I know people who believed very strongly that God condemned Homosexuals (were very embarrassing when they met up with a Gay couple we know at our house warming, as couldn't quite understand their relationship), and have since thanked us as they had to come to terms with their own son being Gay and working for the Church.
There are lots of Churches which are increasingly "Gay friendly" although not all would appear in lists. And I'm personally very encouraged by the work Steve Chalke is doing on inclusive Church.

singlikethepianoMargot coould not agree more with all you say .

I debate about this a lot on line so I know it through that and I use google a lot!!! I am not a scholar!!

Vivacia if you really want an answer from me (of course others may choose to answer but I don't feel this is the place) then please start a thread and invite me and I will comment. I am sure others will too.

Yes, mummytime lovely Steve Chalk. He is brilliant. I heard him speak at Greenbelt in 2013 and heard him debate on line. he is very honest about it all. We need more like him. A lot more evangelical churches in the US are coming out as affirming. One is on line and is very emotional as the paster tells the whole congregation. I think unless one fully understands the very entrenched views that this topic has in religious circles one cannot really understand the pain and the anguish behind it all. This is not to excuse any behaviour or to condone any homophobic behaviour but Christians who are not affirming of gay relationships are not simply homophobic. I think it is more complicated than that. But thank goodness it is all changing now! Steve Chalk has helped to start things rolling or rather has joined in with what non-Evangelical churches have been 'up to' for years!

Apologies singlikethepianoMargot and OP I've just re-read Romans 1: 26 and although it does say "Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones."

That does not necessarily mean they had relationships with other women. Even if it does mean that it does not mean loving lesbian relationships as we know them, of course, which was my point before anyway! But on reading again I see it is not really clear so we could easily say that the Bible does not necessarily mention lesbianism.

I'm a Christian and know a few gay Christians. It's fine. my children have been brought up to know that being gay is absolutely fine.