School serving "only" halal meat - interested in Chritian/Muslim views?

[Ladymuck]

I've been informed that ds's school has recently started only serving halal meat. They haven't communicated this to parents (or at least non-Muslim parents), and I have to say it is slightly confusing as to exactly what they do, other than it is certain that all beef is halal (they are still serving up ham sandwiches, so something is not entirely consist!).

All children eat school dinner - packed lunch is not an option. The school is private but with a "Church of England ethos", including Harvest festival, carol service, assemblies etc. The school has pupils with a huge range of backgrounds. In ds's class about a quarter are Muslim. As far as I can see the school has opted for the simplest option, so there isn't a non-halal main meal on offer.

For my own part I don't have any problem with ds eating halal meat. However there does seem to be some disquiet - apparently some of the Muslim mothers had been making various comments about the Christian and Jewish boys all eating meat blessed by Allah. In turn one of the mums is now making waves about "food offered to idols" being forbidden to Christians. Before we end up in a huge row I wanted to get some opinions.

• For Muslims, what are the implications of non-muslims eating halal? I wouldn't have expected there to be any, but it seems to have caused an issue here?

• For Christians, there seems to be an issue about meat offered to idols? Anyone come across this in their schools as I know a lot of London state schools now offer halal as the main meal (but I guess packed lunch is an option).

QoQ, shurely Jews are told 'you shall have no other God before me' - it is Exodus after all. They don't believe Jesus is the Messiah, so how is it ok for Christians to share a God with them?

Becky - do you mean the prayers said over halal meat don't consititute an offering? i.e. it's not done in a sacrificial kind of way?

I was wondering what others meant by "offered to" actually. When I hear those words, I think of the Eucharist. I find it hard to relate them to a prayer said during the slaughter of an animal for everyday consumption. I was looking for clarification really, as the conversation seemed to be focusing instead on the notion of "false gods".

Wildly off topic but aren't there some Christians who do not believe in the Holy Trinity (Unitarians perhaps, I'm guessing).

Becky, I can't see the difference between the prayers said over halal meat and the Grace that Christians say before a meal. It is just a thanksgiving, as far as I can see. Like nearly3 said, it hasn't been part of a religious ceremony.

saadia, yes .

The doctrine of the Trinity wasn't fixed until the 4th century, and several Christian denominations don't accept it.

saadia, yes .

The doctrine of the Trinity wasn't fixed until the 4th century, and several Christian denominations don't accept it.

There are some Christians who dont believe in the trinity (and no-one who fully understands the mystery of it, I think!!). But it is a mainstream part of Christian beleif and there are certainly some who would say if you dont believe in the trinity then you are not a Christian. Unitarians have a lot of different beleifs apart from not believing in the trinity, like they dont believe in the divinity of Jesus for example (IIRC). Maybe there are unitarians here who could explain better than me?
To me, the trinitarian nature of God is central to what I believe.

Ladymuck - just ask if she has ever been struck down whilst enjoying a curry. Since the majority of 'Indian' restaurants in this country are run by muslim Bengalis or Pakistanis - what sort of meat do people imagine is served in them?

thanks for those explanations - fascinating.

Well it look as if the Christian's response was a bit of a red herring then, but doesn't seem to explain why the Muslim parents seemed to view the fact that Christian and Jewish boys were having to follow Muslim practices as being significant? It was these comments which sparked the row afaik.

I agree with you Carolina.

My beliefs are broadly Unitarian, but as yet I haven't joined a church as it's too far to go with three little ones. I believe Jesus to be the Son of God but God the Son? My mental jury is still out on that one!

what were their comments, Ladymuck?

I don't know Carolina - that's why I posted - trying to find out why this is causing an issue. Doubtless I'll hear more in the playground on Monday...

wonder if they actually said anything much tbh. Maybe a red herring from the Christian mum?

Ladymuck, I seriously doubt whether any muslim person would give a fig what the other children are eating. It doesn't actually matter to us if people other than muslims eat halal meat (it not like say taking communion which is a religious rite (I think)). Also for whoever asked, muslims can quite easily eat kosher foodstuff, so long as it doesn't contain alcohol, and in the event halal meat is not available, it is permissable for a muslim to eat kosher meat, it's prepared very similar to halal meat as far as I know.
Girl I work with regulary eats halal meat, she seems pleased that it's blessed (her words not mine), I find it amusing she like to tell me but other than that it's none of my business what she eats really.

perhaps their local butcher is simply a halal butcher?

hi, I've just read this thread and TBH I'm a bit bewildered that Christians could have any problem with eating halal meat, or kosher meat for that matter.

There was a debate in the early christian church about 'food sacrificed to idols' (obviously that refers to the local gods each city in the near east had at the time) and St Paul's answer was: Unless it causes you to sin, go ahead and eat it.

You could see how if someone had previously worshiped the local gods, and then converted to CHristianity and then was offered some meat that had been sacrificed to their ex-god, possibly back at the temple (IYSWIM!) it could cause them to turn away from CHristianity. That's what St Paul was concerned about. If it was simply that someone offered you a meal, there was no problem.

So the cultural context of the idea of 'food sacrificed to idols' is completely different from the issue of halal meat in a school. It's crazy to think that eating halal meat would cause any christian kids to become muslim, or wolud dilute their christian upbringing in any way.

As a christian mum I wouldn't mind at all if my kids' school decided to serve halal or kosher meat. In all honesty I would see that it's much more important that my kids grow up aware of other people's religions and tolerant of the things that matter deeply to other faiths.

IMO I, as a committed christian have got much more in common with a committed muslim or hindu or any other religion than I have with someone who has no sense of spirituality at all - and I'd like my children to have that value too. Sorry to have meandered a bit!!!

Message withdrawn

I don't do religion, so won't wade in on the religious bit of this.

I do wonder though, is halal meat more expensive? If it is, with all the hoo-ha about feeding children low quality turkey-twizzlers on 18p a day it seems hard to justify not having a Halal/non-halal meat split and possibly for the Halal parents to subsidise the additional cost.

Bloss, by saying that you agree with me in his particular instance does that imply that you disagree with me most of the time?!!

I know what you mean about implicit agreement by going along with something. However I'd only be bothered about that in terms of issues to do with justice/treatment of people/fundamental matters of faith. Like I could never ignore bullying in the school where I work, or buy non-FairTrade tea. Do I take it that you are Jewish by birth and christian by choice? My old church did lots of jewish things (like a passover meal) to help us understand how we fit into the sweep of history. I don't think you can really understand Christianity without understanding at least a bit about Judaism. That's my view anyway! (hope no jews are offended - I love your religion if you are reading this!!)

Anyway I can't think seriously tonight because it's half term (yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!) sorry about the incoherent blether

Hmm.. bypassed a lot of the thread but for OP, that sounds bizarre. The school has gone halal but still serving ham sandwiches? This should not be a problem if the ham sarnies are made away and with different utensils from all halal foods cutlery etc.

The mother who is making waves about food offered to idols is just creating. I have lived in Asia where it is perfectly acceptable for non muslims/sikhs to eat halal food.
My muslim friends were always cooking for us, yum yum!
There should be NO issue here on who eats the meat! Unless Britian is somehow mentioned in a book for rules are different, I would be keen to know!!

Seems the school has gone for a 'simple' option, though I really expected to hear the school population had higher number of sikhs/muslims than you give.

I would be hacked off that no consulation had taken place. It wouldn't bother me because we have plenty of pork in the house, but no consultation..

As an atheist, I would find myself mildly irritated that the religious beliefs of a minority group were being used as a basis for the purchasing policy of the whole school.

If we follow this to a logical conclusion then our whole society will end up with immensely restrictive practices, following what could be seen as bizarre and unnecessary ways of operating in the modern world. This could lead to all meat in this country - hospitals, schools, restaurants etc having to be halal, which surely biases meat production in favour of Islamic producers.

I don't object to people following their own customs, but imposing unnecessary conditions on me, yes. A halal option for those who want it, yes. All food being prepared in accordance with any ancient belief system that the majority don't follow (halal, kosher, fish on fridays whatever) no.

Halal, like Kosher, "organic" et al are money making schemes. You want your food certified, you have to pay.
Given that most of the problems with school meals are down to very low spend, is this a valid use of resources.

I also don't believe the food really does comply with the dietary superstitions, and is thus fraudulent.

Middle European superstitions have a real chip on their shoulder about menstruation, and an "unclean" woman isn't really supposed to touch things.
Are the cooks sent home for that part of the month ?

I'd be bloody pissed off if this really were the case.
So non Muslims can eat their stuff but they can't eat ours?
It's a very dangerous route to take.

As an aside,they will often jump on the dying animal too to get the bloody out probably.

Having said that,the religious implications wory me more than the animal welfare ones.

(Hello Dominic,we were wondering where you were...)