School serving "only" halal meat - interested in Chritian/Muslim views?

[Ladymuck]

I've been informed that ds's school has recently started only serving halal meat. They haven't communicated this to parents (or at least non-Muslim parents), and I have to say it is slightly confusing as to exactly what they do, other than it is certain that all beef is halal (they are still serving up ham sandwiches, so something is not entirely consist!).

All children eat school dinner - packed lunch is not an option. The school is private but with a "Church of England ethos", including Harvest festival, carol service, assemblies etc. The school has pupils with a huge range of backgrounds. In ds's class about a quarter are Muslim. As far as I can see the school has opted for the simplest option, so there isn't a non-halal main meal on offer.

For my own part I don't have any problem with ds eating halal meat. However there does seem to be some disquiet - apparently some of the Muslim mothers had been making various comments about the Christian and Jewish boys all eating meat blessed by Allah. In turn one of the mums is now making waves about "food offered to idols" being forbidden to Christians. Before we end up in a huge row I wanted to get some opinions.

• For Muslims, what are the implications of non-muslims eating halal? I wouldn't have expected there to be any, but it seems to have caused an issue here?

• For Christians, there seems to be an issue about meat offered to idols? Anyone come across this in their schools as I know a lot of London state schools now offer halal as the main meal (but I guess packed lunch is an option).

Cappuccino, I would personally have preferred if all the meat myself and my family had ever eaten had treated well, not fed other animals and not pumped full of hormones. Yes of course it is a good thing if they don't do these things now but it is very easy to lose faith and be cynical about an industry that has done these things in the past.

I mentioned Britain because I live in Britain and eat British meat.

re the ham sandwiches, presumably some of the children are strict enough muslims not to eat them?

with sandwiches, there's no issue of 'cross-contamination' like there would be with halal and non-halal beef in e.g. a stew.

AFAIK, muslims don't have any rules about keeping pork out of the kitchen altogether?

MrsSpoon I see your point but the meat industry generally has been in a very difficult position

as a society we devalue the price of food and the value of well-treated meat etc by buying the cheapest cuts possible and not looking at where it has come from, so that a farmer finds the price of his cows going down and down and down at auction while his cost of living goes up

and we happily wander down the aisles buying cheap imported meat from countries who don't have to a) pay their labourers as much or b) meet the same welfare standards

farmers don't get a decent return on their investment and in any other business corners would be cut to save costs. supermarkets pay dairy farmers less per litre of milk than it actually costs to produce

I only know the theory of halal meat. I don't know how it works in practice. Do the animals definitely suffer more, or is this just assumed because of the lack of stunning?

Is the meat "blessed by Allah" or just slaughtered in a particular way? And the "offered to idols" stuff is bizarre.

And on the other issue, it is possible to buy meat "treated well, not fed other animals and not pumped full of hormones" (although perhaps not at Tesco). You just have to pay for it.

in the footage I saw of halal meat being slaughtered, the conscious animal had its throat cut and bled to death

as I've said, if that was going to happen to me I'd rather be stunned first. The animal would surely be terrified and in great pain

It does seem a bit bizarre to offer ham as the only choice of sandwich in a school where a quarter of the children are muslim!

IME (of dp's friends and family) people who have muslim backgrounds but drink alcohol still wouldn't touch pork in any guise or form!

Well just to be typical me - no I wouldn't be happy if my child only had the option of eating Halal meat - nothing to do with how it's klled - but rather the Islamic practices and belief behind it. Why would I let my Christian child eat something which has been prepared in a certain way because of Islamic beliefs? (I would feel the same if it was Sikh, Pagan, or Buddist preperation and beliefs behind it).

Cappuccino, that's the thing I'm not particularly 'getting at' the farmers it's the whole set up pushed for by supermarkets, the bargain hungry public and government. For the record I do try and buy the majority of my meat at the local butcher and try where possible to buy more ethical meat from supermarkets. Although I'm not about to run out and buy Halal meat either as I'm not sure where I stand on the blessings to Allah thing.

do they give the muslim kids unleavened bread to even up the score a bit?

How would it actually affect you, though QoQ? It isn't as if you were being asked to take part in an act of worship.

I really can't see how that would make a difference QoQ. Would you let your child eat food that had been prepared in a kosher kitchen?

"And the "offered to idols" stuff is bizarre. "

Not really bizarre - most Christians believe that our God is the ONLY god, all other Gods that are worshipped therefore don't exist.....anything else that is worshipped other than God is an idol.......although if we're going to be picky about it and they'd read their bible properly they'd say it had been "offered to false Gods rather than Idols"

And on that note I'm off to cook my chicken.

So if your children do have muslim or jewish friends, you won't allow them to eat at their houses?

Is it actually being offered to a false god though?

I'm a christian, and I still say bizarre.

no, Allah is the same God isn't he? Just worshipped differently.

The false idols thing is e.g. worshipping statues etc.

DS has been blessed by a Swarmi in a temple to Hanuman, and had coloured pigment and coconut milk rubbed on him - i.e offered up to a (very lurid) idol. Would you let your DS's play with a child who has been offered up to an idol?

HRH, your God is deffo the Jewish God too, is he not?

I do have a problem with blanket decisions being made about my children's diet based on a culture that isn't necessarily theirs without consultation

I am a Christian. But I don't have a problem with the false gods malarkey. It's an animal welfare thing for me and it seems that it's taking a huge backward step as a society in terms of animal welfare to start sourcing massive amounts of halal meat

hang on I thought Allah was the same God figure as in Judeo-christian beliefs .. I think they all believe in old testament it just differs from then on in

I'd care far more about my children being served intensively-reared chickens than unstunned beef tbh.

Personally I wouldn't like it just introduced without any consultation. I have no objection to my child eating at her muslim friends house though and she has been many times. Her friend doesn't come to ours so perhaps her mum doesn't trust me not to give her a ham sarnie

Now the Judaism issue it a big one, which could fill up a whole thread of it's own - a lot of Christians believe that God has a special plan for the Jews......seen as though Jesus himself was a born a Jew and therefore Kosher is only seen as being dated (it was common practice in the Old Testament but in the NT and the onset of Christianity it was deemed not nesseary - but still being of the same line of belief not condemmed in the same way as Halal).

Becky - if you're a christian you believe in ONE God...the Christian God........therefore Allah can only really been seen as a False God.

Blu - re eating at other people's houses - think I've already covered (all be it extremely briefly the Kosher issue). Re the Halal issue - the (very) few times I was allowed to eat at Muslim friends houses (my dad is a bl**dy racist bigot....... - although we still get on ok) they fed me vegetarian......and when we've had my Cousin and her DH up (who are Jewish and eat a strict Kosher diet - which is hard to get hold of up here).....I've gone vegeterian - and would probably do the same if I had Muslim friend's over - rather than possibly offend them by offering Haram meat.

if Allah was the same God then surely Christian would be worshipping Allah??? And Muslims would be worshipping God??? As I've already mentioned below the Judaism/Christian thing is extremely complex and could be dedicated to an entirely new thread.

It's not a different God - it's the manner of worship and the big Q of whether Jesus is the Messiah that separates Christians from Muslims and Jews.

I wasn't questioning the false god bit. I was questioning what was meant by "offered to".