School serving "only" halal meat - interested in Chritian/Muslim views?

[Ladymuck]

I've been informed that ds's school has recently started only serving halal meat. They haven't communicated this to parents (or at least non-Muslim parents), and I have to say it is slightly confusing as to exactly what they do, other than it is certain that all beef is halal (they are still serving up ham sandwiches, so something is not entirely consist!).

All children eat school dinner - packed lunch is not an option. The school is private but with a "Church of England ethos", including Harvest festival, carol service, assemblies etc. The school has pupils with a huge range of backgrounds. In ds's class about a quarter are Muslim. As far as I can see the school has opted for the simplest option, so there isn't a non-halal main meal on offer.

For my own part I don't have any problem with ds eating halal meat. However there does seem to be some disquiet - apparently some of the Muslim mothers had been making various comments about the Christian and Jewish boys all eating meat blessed by Allah. In turn one of the mums is now making waves about "food offered to idols" being forbidden to Christians. Before we end up in a huge row I wanted to get some opinions.

• For Muslims, what are the implications of non-muslims eating halal? I wouldn't have expected there to be any, but it seems to have caused an issue here?

• For Christians, there seems to be an issue about meat offered to idols? Anyone come across this in their schools as I know a lot of London state schools now offer halal as the main meal (but I guess packed lunch is an option).

I understand mulsims and jews being restricted when eating in non-halal / kosher households, but there aren't any specifically Christian laws about meat (afaik) so can't Christians eat what they like? I am interested, QoQ. I honestly have never come acorss another Christian who has said they wouldn't eat meat which happened to be halal or kosher.
MN - you live and learn!

I'd be more pissed off about the lack of consultation or only consulting one particular group of parents, tbh. By not telling all parents about it, they've made it look sneaky and as if one group of parents/children has special treatment. Which causes resentment. If they'd just been honest and said 'we've got a number of Muslim children so all our meat will be halal so everyone can eat it' I bet there would have been less of a hoo-ha.

and ham sandwiches thing is bizarre, every Muslim I've ever known has been repulsed by the idea of eating pig.

Indeed we do live on learn on MN Blu........still I'm not offended by what other MN's think of my beliefs......and I really hope I haven't offended anyone with my thoughts on this subject......one of the things I love about MN is the diversity of beliefs (or non-beliefs for some people!) and practices .

Really must get on now though - dinner is still cooking, I'm still in my dressing gown (worked last night so only been up for about 2hrs) and I've got choir practice in 40 minutes !

t's not a different God - it's the manner of worship and the big Q of whether Jesus is the Messiah that separates Christians from Muslims and Jews.

Not actually the case IMO. I beleive in a trinitarian God, Father< son and Holy Spirit, whichis not the Islamic God at all. Its not just a matter of the messiah-ship of Jesus, it is much more than that!

ok then, God-the-Father is the same god as Allah.

Well I agree that the communication from the school has been poorly managed. I suspect that they will end up with an unnecessary fuss on their hands.

Not sure what is going on re ham sandwiches. It sounds as if they have tried to simplify meal times without fully thinking it through. I suspect that hotdogs etc are still on the menu with the staff now totally relaxed because they think all the necessary restrictions are being dealt with by the new policy.

In terms of the religious significance it sounds as if there is no specific issue for muslims with non-mumslims eating Halal meat. (I went to a Roman Catholic school where there was no way a non-Catholic would be allowed to receive communion for example). So other than being badly handled there doesn't really seem to be anything more to be concerned about I would hope.

The "all 3 Gods" are the same is a bit more tricky surely. I mean, there are the Jews being God's chosen people, when out of the blue appears Jesus (and the New Testament), and then a while later along comes the Prophet and the Koran. I certainly haven't heard many Jews and Muslims declaring that Allah is Jehovah, but pehaps I just try to avoid those discussions.

I do have reservations about halal meat from a welfare pov, but then we are vegetarian. If you eat meat, unless you rear and kill your own meat a la Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall then at some point you will eat something that has suffered - it is the nature of our meat industry (note, industry, not farming).

That aside, as a Christian I am shocked that other Christians see this as 'meat being offered to idols'. I do believe that we all believe in one God, but have different truths of understanding that God. Even if I didn't though, and did believe the Christian God was the only true God, the meat has hardly been 'offered to an idol' has it? It's not been a part of any religious ceremony. Don't understand it at all, sorry. The children aren't going to be aware...no, I really don't want to cause offense but it sounds quite superstitious to me.

I have eaten kosher meat before going veggie, and would be happy for my dcs to take part in religious ceremonies from other faiths - it can only enrich their own understanding.

haavent read whole thread.
why is this an issue? or do the moms's at ladymucks school have nothing better to do than complaain?
if you are a muslim sending your kids to a church of england school, aand your kids are getting halal meat, saay thank you politly aanad graacefully.
if you aare non muslim, rest assured that any meaat being served up will legally have to pass british food safety standards.
this shouldnt be an issue at all

Halal meat is supposed to be killed within three strokes of the knife (to the jugular), the words God is great are uttered over the animal.
The animal is suposed to be dead before the bleeding happens otherwise it is not halal.

Muslims's believe that Jesus (pbuh), is a messenger of God (from the same line as Abraham), we believe that he is the son of the virgin Mary and is the word of God. We believe he was strengthened by the holy spirit Gabriel.....
This is the first time I've come across Islam and muslims being called idolators....(I must not click on these type of threads they give me sleepless nights they really do).

fuzzywuzzy, I am so sorry, IME few Christians believe the God of Islam to be an idol. Thank you for explaining what happens during a halah slaughter.

Erm, but wasn't the part in the New Testament about it being okay to eat non-kosher meat... Christians were arguing about whether it was okay to eat meat that had been offered up to idols etc, and the vision was that it was ALL clean to them. (Birds and a tablecloth spring to mind).

Now, I can't quote chapter and verse but I can look it up if anyone (QoQ ) is pedantic enough...

I.e. as far as I understand it, Christians can quite happily in all conscience eat halal meat...

Acts 10

...and 1 Corinthians 8.

Very good point, Georgina!!!!

meat is murder, stop worrying about within which religious doctrine it is slaughtered. if you eat it, face the facts.

Very relevant to the discussion....

but it is relevant, IMO. Which is what this board is all about.

For some Christians not to eat meat is wrong, I've had this discussion before. IMO to eat factory-farmed meat as a Christian goes against our duty of stewardship.

yes it says in there that they don't have to eat Kosher meat - but it doesn't say we can eat meat that is prepared in accordance with an entirely different belief system. And Halal is just that. A key aspect of Christianity is that Jesus is God's son - and Islam quite clearly doesn't believe that. Therefore it IS a different God they worship. Therefore if you believe your bible they worship a false God in the eyes of Christinity. Just like most Muslims, don't believe they worship the same God as Christians - how can they if Islam says that Allah had no Son???

For those of you that believe that they are all the same God - I'd say you have beliefs more like the Ba'hai faith -

"When Bahá'ís say that the various religions are one, they do not mean that the various religious creeds and organizations are the same. Rather, they believe that there is only one religion and all of the Messengers of God have progressively revealed its nature. Together, the world's great religions are expressions of a single unfolding Divine plan"

Of course that's just my opinion - and I hope I'm entitle to it the same as everyone else is to theirs

I still don't get why you can't eat the meat though. "Prepared in accordance with an entirely different belief system" it may be, but to go from there to "offered to false gods" is a leap too far.

how is it a leap too far???

Christians are told "You shall have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3)". Halal meat is prepared under the laws of Sharia law - which is a law which is not based on the Christian God - therefore eating something which has been prepared under a different belief system is eating something which has in effect been 'offered' to what the bible says is a False God - as it's not the only CHristian God.

"Islam requires obedience to the detailed laws and regulations laid down in the Koran . Salvation is earned through fasting, almsgiving, pilgrimages to Mecca and other religious duties. In contrast, Christians believe that salvation cannot be obtained through obedience to laws. It comes as a free gift to all who believe in Jesus, through his death and resurrection. If salvation is possible through obedience to laws, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians 2:21)."

However having said all of this - I will concede - yes you did read correctly - that so long as a Christian gives thanks to God for the meat that they're eating they can indeed eat Halal meat "Everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer (1 Timothy 4:4,5)"

So, to go back to the OP - so long as my child was saying Grace before eating their meal at school (highly unlikely IME) they could eat it - however if Grace was not said at the school I'd still stop my child eating it.

QoQ crawls under a rock and admits she may have been wrong on some of what she said*

Again, I'm arguing with the "offered to" part of "offered to false gods". The leap to which I was refering is from the mode of preparation to the act of offering it up. BTW, we always said grace at my primary school

but no halal meat