Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism? Part 2

[headinhands]

My goodness we like arguing don't we :)

I'm not sure it is a weakness or a strength in me, probably the potential to be both. I think we got way off topic though....

Since then I gave myself complete brain itch thinking about randomness...

It is a rejection, of sort,s since it is well known that any belief requires faith. This is the nature of belief. I do not think I would be that outrageous in saying there will be some things you believe (until they are dis proven at least but then you cannot disprove God).

Regarding faith, the things I believe have many good reasons for me to believe, like my husband loving me. I have absolutely no reason to believe the bible is in any way true. As for the not being able to disprove god reasoning, do you behave as if Allah and Zeus are real just in case? Why not? How are you able to discount their validity so quickly. Am I actually to believe that you behave as if anything that hasn't been disproved is actually true? If I said that right now there was a yeti raiding your fridge would you believe me, why not?

I actually believe Allah and Zeus are real for the people who believe in them - or any god or gods really. I view them as spirits affecting the people who believe in them in the spiritual sense emotionally and potentially physically over time. The tales concerning the complete fearsomeness, practically invincibility of the Vikings is tantamount to this, as through their religion they revered war and did not fear (a good) death.

However I worship God through Jesus Christ, as the one God, and no other spirits or gods. So for me the only affect other gods have is through the people who worship them and their behaviour towards me.

Regarding the yeti I might be surprised, since I live in the UK. However if you were not usually the sort to joke, I would be concerned as to what was actually was going on.

Allah and Zeus are real for the people who believe in them

but do you think they are real, for you? Are they real like my coffee table?

if you were not usually the sort to joke

so you use reasoning to make an assessment. You don't just think 'until it is disproved I will behave as if it is real'. You think about what you know to be real and so on. You don't just get up and run out the house. Why not?

Real for me? I view them as spirits, which can affect living beings, cause physical manifestations in them. I believe spirits are real, although non-physical, they only exist in the spiritual realm but can cause physical manifestations amongst people who believe in them, thus manifest amongst them.

I actually thing spirits could also cause physical manifestations in other living matter. Plants have quite complex communication systems, as do animals and in the Bible Jesus describes His words as 'spirit'.

Because I only believe in one God, revering Him as all powerful other spirits have no hold/authority over me. Although by meeting/observing people/reading their histories and thoughts, who other spirits do have hold/authority over, I can observe their manifestation.

You think about what you know to be real and so on. You don't just get up and run out the house. Why not?

I don't believe in panicking. I use my senses (that I believe God designed me with) however I also acknowledge I can be mistaken sometimes.

But as for people who don't believe in spirits, if they were influenced, I wonder whether they could acknowledge it? Or whether they would be ignorant of it.

I believe the way Zeitgeist is works is spirit, and propaganda. I think you have to have a definite mindset to counteract it.

I think the way culture affects humanity, in all sorts of ways, could be termed spiritual.

could be termed spiritual

Term it what you like but there is still no evidence for a spiritual realm. That's the bottom line isn't it.

I wonder whether they could acknowledge it?

Still no evidence regardless, believing something doesn't make it so does it.

I think you can get too thought up in the language of it all. If you look at how functionally people use the word spirit and forget people's artistic impressions of spirit(s) the phenomenon becomes a whole lot more believable...

Caught up, not thought up. Typo.

Beliefs do affect the way people view the world, what they are prepared to observe, form the motivations behind their actions and even affect them physically (think cultural affects behaviour and in turn on biology).

A belief system, seen in terms of spirit, could therefore manifest in and among people and possibly other living creatures (since they do imagine).

I don't believe in panicking. I use my senses (that I believe God designed me with)

So god designed you? And panicking is very much the right thing to do sometimes, fight or flight and all that. Without panicking and running away/climbing a tree that tiger you thought you heard ahead would have eaten you.

a whole lot more believable...

For you maybe, but I require some, err, what was it? Oh, evidence, yeah, I need some evidence. :D

I don't class flight necessarily as panic though. Being frozen to the spot when you should run us panic. Running in a situation where you should stay still is panic. Basically unthinkingly doing exactly the wrong thing is panicking. Quickly reacting appropriately is not panicking.

How to you deal with theories which have never been tested head? The functionality of the word 'spirit' and ways this can be seen to occur in real life, two such examples could be through artistic propaganda, the Nocebo and Placebo effect, is enough to think it possible for me.

And then 'some' evidence, is rather vague....how much? What sort?

The spiritual realm way of looking at things works for me. I believe in it.

Beliefs do affect the way people view the world, what they are prepared to observe, form the motivations behind their actions and even affect them physically (think cultural affects behaviour and in turn on biology).

Quite often caps you sound like you're arguing for my side! If its nigh on impossible to determine what is real or if anything is real or that you think what's real is what you think is real and all that gubbins then surely my position is more tenable and reasonable, that of suspending any decision about god/gods etc?

Thought experiment, you could view it as that...

And then 'some' evidence, is rather vague....how much? What sort?

The sort that would convince me I guess. If I said I could fly at what point would you believe me, at what point would you believe that there was a yeti stood in your kitchen eating your Muller Corner?

Quite often caps you sound like you're arguing for my side! If its nigh on impossible to determine what is real or if anything is real or that you think what's real is what you think is real and all that gubbins then surely my position is more tenable and reasonable, that of suspending any decision about god/gods etc?

I find your position unliveable, head. I find myself absolutely lost when considering post modernism and relativism, unable to make decisions, since evidence was never enough.

I think we are probably almost direct opposites, in that sense. The same observations lead you to be, what pragmatic? Whereas I adopted a more religious, spiritual, framework to help me make sense of things.

I would believe you, concerning the yeti, you would be experiencing something. However you could be being spiritually deceived. If no one else could see it, experience it in any way, I would say the yeti was possibly not physical and something else had affected you, possibly physically, perception wise. Or you could have heightened perceptions, or at least those different from the norm.