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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

999 replies

gingerdodger · 04/07/2014 15:03

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

OP posts:
crescentmoon · 17/07/2014 09:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:29

crescent I would agree with you there. Scary stuff, the opportunity for corruption there is horrific.

Hakluyt · 17/07/2014 09:30

"well im glad there are still bishops in the house of Lords because tomorrow the assisted dying bill comes up for its second proposal reading."

See? That is one of the reasons I am not at all glad there are still Bishops in the House of Lords. Why should 25 unelected people all with a particular viewpoint have a say in a debate like this?

combust22 · 17/07/2014 09:30

"If you don't believe in God your argument is not with God, if you don't believe He exists. Your argument is with people..."

So no news there then.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:33

combust why be so vehemently opposed to people sharing religious beliefs then?

combust22 · 17/07/2014 09:37

""If you don't believe in God your argument is not with God, if you don't believe He exists. Your argument is with people..."

So no news there then."

"combust why be so vehemently opposed to people sharing religious beliefs then?"- em because I don't want my kids to be taught a load of bollocks.

Because I want a society free of mysoginy and homophobic values?

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:41

Because I want a society free of mysoginy and homophobic values?

You can have that with God, we are all of equal worth in His eyes, according to my Christian beliefs.

livelablove · 17/07/2014 09:45

I mean I would be happy for a more secular society, but one in which religion was treated in a positive manner for example not having compulsory worship in schools, but keeping R.E lessons. I do think we should include many faiths in R.E not just Christianity. Sunday trading laws should be removed, but Christians should be legally entitled to have Sundays off wherever possible.

Politically if someone of faith wanted to run as an MP they should be allowed to talk about their faith and vote according to their religious convictions and people can choose whether to vote them in or not. But I don't agree with giving Bishops an automatic seat in the House of Lords.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:46

And I could quite easily say the same thing, regarding teaching my kids bollocks. I don't want them taught God does not matter, or that they have to hide their religious beliefs like they should be ashamed of them, to me this is very wrong.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:53

livelablove the reason I support collective worship in schools is

  1. it is not compulsory in that people can opt their children out of it. The opt out should be done in a non-discriminatory way though so that these children do not miss out on anything else. Some schools handle this better than others.
  2. I believe schools should make provision for collective worship if it is wanted by the school community. Without the compulsory element it! that is schools have to make provision for it, would be too easy for them not to do this.

Regarding the House of Lords, I believe unelected Bishops are as appropriate as any other unelected member.

Hakluyt · 17/07/2014 10:13

"Without the compulsory element it! that is schools have to make provision for it, would be too easy for them not to do this."

But if it is what everyone wants why would they want not to provide it?

And what do you think would be the effect of not having collective worship in school? What harm would be caused?

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:28

But if it is what everyone wants why would they want not to provide it?

Because IME (through having a child who had a Statement of SEN) schools tend to only provide what is enforceable. This thread is testament to that,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1862438-Teachers-do-not-adhere-to-Statemented-1-to-1-support-do-not-believe-in-sub-levels-make-APP-assessments-up-How-much-of-what-parents-are-told-by-schools-about-teaching-is-a-box-ticking-exercise

And what do you think would be the effect of not having collective worship in school? What harm would be caused?

They would miss out on the benefits of collective worship joining together with the school community. Also, with small children, school takes up a large amount of their waking hours and after that school directed home learning, there is only so much opportunity for them to join in with collective worship elsewhere. Added to this schools are well placed to tailor collective worship to children's needs.

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:34

^ I should say rather schools de-prioritise what is not enforceable. Some individual schools and teachers do go the extra mile.

Hakluyt · 17/07/2014 10:36

What are the benefits of collective worship?

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:41

People can pray and praise God in unity.

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:46

Matthew 18:20King James Version (KJV)

"20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:49

Oh and the verse before that,

"19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."

(Matthew 18 v 19)

Hakluyt · 17/07/2014 10:57

Ah. So a benefit to Christians only. Once again.

I don't understand why you can't see how selfish that is.

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:59

Christianity is for whosoever will believe on Jesus. So anyone can choose to become a Christian.

capsium · 17/07/2014 10:59

Prayers are only prayers if you pray in Faith. Other than that you are just reciting poetry.

capsium · 17/07/2014 11:01

And many schools provide activities that only some can benefit from according to their abilities.

capsium · 17/07/2014 11:02

Differentiation by outcome?

combust22 · 17/07/2014 12:03

No, not anyone can "decide" to become a christian. Can you decide to fall in love? It's not an intellectual decision.

capsium · 17/07/2014 12:14

combust well I made a conscious decision to pursue Christian beliefs further and then to make them my own beliefs.

I decide to act in love towards people, love them.

Are you saying you have no free will?

BackOnlyBriefly · 17/07/2014 12:14

LovingSummer wonderful list :)

I guess it's all been covered, but subtract any where someone could say "Hey it says here he will wear something with red and yellow stripes. Remind me to wear something with red and yellow stripes when I preach later".

Then subtract those things which you have no proof happened in the end. Such as Jesus returning to life etc.

Does that leave any? few enough perhaps to work through individually?