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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Do you feel it is important to share your views on faith or atheism?

999 replies

gingerdodger · 04/07/2014 15:03

This is a genuine question, I am not asking to promote a faith vs atheism debate as we have plenty of those.

My question is whether people feel that it is part of their faith to share those beliefs with others? How far do you take this and how do you approach it? Similarly for those who are atheist, do you feel it is important to share your opinions and in what ways do you do this?

I know some faith groups see this as absaloutely fundamental to their faith whilst others are more relaxed. I also see that those who do not believe in God(s) also often wish to share their opinions widely. It interests me to think about what this achieves in terms of sharing opinions, understanding of each other etc.

From my point of view I strive to be open about my faith, I like to listen to other's perspectives as this makes me think (providing they are listening, I tend to bow out when it starts to feel adversarial and not inquisitorial). I don't feel compelled to actively knock on doors (metaphorically or otherwise) to share my faith but rather subscribe to the view that I hope my approach to life and openness about faith allows me to discuss my faith openly and honestly. I do believe actions speak louder than words and the best form of 'preaching' is to live Christian values of love (not saying I am good at this).

OP posts:
combust22 · 16/07/2014 22:16

But chocolate you must know that your stance on sahring your good news does feel predatory to many. Just because you feel the love doesn't mean that others feel it or indeed want to. Many christians come across as zealotes.

There are many of us who couldn't give a rat's behind about your saviour.

Hakluyt · 16/07/2014 22:23

I think what I find difficult is when Christians seem to think that I don't belive because I haven't got enough information, and if they give me more I will see the light. Somehow not believing that I have arrived at the position I hold through much thought and reading and contemplation.....

combust22 · 16/07/2014 22:31

It can't be done can it. I have had a deep interest in religion since I was 13, but always had an atheist stance. I am a scientist. My knowledge of religion and science prevent me from catching faith.

Thankfully.

But religion reveres ignorance. I wonder why.......

LovingSummer · 16/07/2014 23:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

combust22 · 16/07/2014 23:17

oh pleaseHmm

I haven't "hardened my heart", I simply have no proof that god exits, and neither do you.

If god desires all men to be saved why doesn't he just save them anyway? He is the omnipotent one after all.

livelablove · 16/07/2014 23:18

Sometimes Atheists can seem to be trying to argue you out of your faith, from their POV they are doing you a favour if they make you see sense, but this is no different than a Christian trying to argue someone into believing for their salvation.

combust22 · 16/07/2014 23:21

I have no desire to make christians see sense. I would be happy if they could keep their faith to themselves.

They don't though they interfere in many aspects of society and therefore my business.

And it is different. Atheism is not a faith, no-one can be indoctrinated by atheism.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/07/2014 00:22

Not really true Combust, IIRC you would like to see religion "implode up its own behind", or words to that effect.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/07/2014 00:41

Dorrit, I really do think it comes down to interpretation. I have had to arbitrate in at least one discussion about whether Eccles Cakes are biscuits or cakes. If one has Eccles cakes in the cupboard, do they count as biscuits?Biscuit

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 17/07/2014 01:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/07/2014 02:00

Ah, but is it not to be expected? Scientific proof of the existence of Eccles cakes can only exist after the invention of Eccles cakes. One can only prove that something exists, after it has been brought into existence.

And that leads me on to (and forgive me for mentioning it), The Kendal Mint Cake. (dum dum duumm). Not a cake. Not a biscuit. But a life saver!

combust22 · 17/07/2014 07:51

"Not really true Combust, IIRC you would like to see religion "implode up its own behind", or words to that effect."

Yes- because religion imposes itself on others. As it stands i would like to see the church destroyed. If they can keep it to themselves and stpo spreading their forces thenI am happy for them to continue, indeed I would support the right of others to worship.

Just keep it out of my and my kids faces.

capsium · 17/07/2014 08:16

Yes- because religion imposes itself on others. As it stands i would like to see the church destroyed. If they can keep it to themselves and stpo spreading their forces thenI am happy for them to continue, indeed I would support the right of others to worship.

How, Combust? People's beliefs are part of them. They affect their motivations, the way they perceive, the way they speak, the way they act. How? The church is not just a building it is all Christian believers, that is a group of people. Would you not allow them to meet, or talk to each other? Or talk to you, or your children?

I don't think the how really allows for a very free society.

combust22 · 17/07/2014 08:24

Of course they can, what I object to is the institutional privilidges the church benefits from, the authority they have, their power within government, the laws which dictate that my children should worship.

I happily support the rights of others to worship, to meet, to build churches ( without public money).

I don't want them sitting in the house of lords, being involved in law and policy making processes and preaching to my kids.

capsium · 17/07/2014 08:27

Who makes the institutions? People. People must have wanted the set up like that to support it and still support it. Or would you deny them their right to opinion?

Hakluyt · 17/07/2014 08:30

"Of course they can, what I object to is the institutional privilidges the church benefits from, the authority they have, their power within government, the laws which dictate that my children should worship.

I happily support the rights of others to worship, to meet, to build churches ( without public money). "

Absolutely. And to build and fund faith schools should they wish.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:05

The question is what our society wants. I'm not convinced enough actually want a secular society. I do not fear secularisation but because I believe there is value in having and sharing my Faith I do not support it either. If I were given a vote on it, this is how I would vote.

livelablove · 17/07/2014 09:09

I wouldn't object to a secular society as long as people were free to express their faith in their lives, like wearing certain clothes and talking about their faith freely. I don't like the idea that someone could get in trouble for talking about their faith or for example offering to pray for a non christian. Also I would like to retain some of the traditional things like nativity plays at Christmas.
I don't really agree with religious people having a lot of power and influence (and money) in society. I think power corrupts and religion can so easily become something bad and "bear bad fruit" as Jesus said.

combust22 · 17/07/2014 09:14

" I don't like the idea that someone could get in trouble for talking about their faith or for example offering to pray for a non christian."

But they don't get into trouble.

Unless done in a workplace situation which is highly innapropriate and needs to be addressed.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:15

The thing is livelablove being able to have nativity plays at Christmas, being able to offer to pray for non-Christians and being able to wear certain clothes for religious reasons is not really a feature of secular societies.

This is reason I am content with what we have. Not that it could not improve, at all. I am not blind to the corruption within some church institutions. However I would rather have the church's involvement and work to improve the church than not have it at all.

combust22 · 17/07/2014 09:19

"Who makes the institutions? People. People must have wanted the set up like that to support it and still support it."

Ha ha- that makes me laugh. We are suffereing a legacy of the huge power that the church wielded over the ignorant masses for many many centuries. Power, money , corruption, harsh laws all enebled the church to easily grasp power from an uneducated populace.

You think "people must have wanted it"? Do you think the church gave them a choice?

combust22 · 17/07/2014 09:20

"This is reason I am content with what we have." of course you are- you are a christian.

Same as white middle class right wing men are happy with the power structures in western society.

"I'm all right jack" - very noble.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:22

The church consists of people combust but of course the can still make mistakes, still sin according to my beliefs. However if you don't believe in God, as you have said you don't, there is no other influence but people.

The building does not do much by itself does it?

combust22 · 17/07/2014 09:26

I don't need to believe in god to wintness the power the church yields.

capsium · 17/07/2014 09:27

If you don't believe in God your argument is not with God, if you don't believe He exists. Your argument is with people...

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