Believers VS Non-belivers

[edwardcullensotherwoman]

Why is it that if someone believes in something, they will talk about it as exactly that - something they believe in - and not portray it as absolute fact; yet if someone doesn't believe in something, they will say this as an absolute fact and ridicule those who believe?

It's almost as if those who don't believe (in whatever the subject: angels, God, reincarnation) consider themselves superior to those who do, and view those who do as stupid for doing so.

Surely everyone's beliefs are their own belief and opinion - nothing "woo" can be either proven or disproven, so therefore nobody is right or wrong.

It just seems that every thread that starts "Do you believe" on this board ends up in a bun fight with believes defending themselves against non-believers who tell them they're being ridiculous. The clue is in the title of the board - if you don't believe in anything that's likely to be discussed under that heading, just avoid the board!

Does that mean you are sure that God exists but think the whole religion thing may be fiction?

That would again be avoiding my question.

What is the difference, if any, between fiction or a delusion and a circular belief with zero evidence that your belief in God is given to you by God?

(Last chance - I'm giving up after this one so as not to bore the thread to tears)

"There is an answer, but discerning it, well that is the thing...Can you? Absolutely without any doubt?"

I just ask what you thought was the difference between those two concepts.

If you can't see a difference, that may be because there isn't any.

The answer to your first question depends entirely on your definition of 'religion' and 'God', Cote and I can't answer you because I strongly suspect we do not concur in our definitions.

To your second, truth can exist beyond our realisation of it, regardless of evidence collected. If you do not look, you do not see.

If you can't see a difference, that may be because there isn't any.

Ooh, wow I am very flattered you would hold onto what I can personally see and communicate , as a measure of what s true.

Unfortunately, I have to break it to you, I am not infallible...

So basically, you can't answer a simple question. I give up.

This is why these threads get so frustrating.

Bore? Well there again, sadly I get this. No one really wants to engage...it all gets far too eristic.

*"I think God exists, yes. Sometimes I doubt."

Can't you make up your mind?*

I've made up my mind, in that I know what I believe.

it would be disingenous of me to say that therefore I have it all sorted and never have the tiniest bit of doubt. Doubting doesn't mean I stop believing, nor does it mean that I dip in and out of thinking God is there - simply means that I am engaging with my own faith journey and letting myself question matters as they arise. And sometimes it's because something happens in my life or the life of others that causes me to question. But questioning doesn't equal losing that faith - to me it strengthens it.

"Doubting doesn't mean I stop believing"

Surely it means that while you are doubting, you are not believing.

You can't have both of the two options below. It is an either/or choice:

(1) God exists (I believe)
or
(2) I'm not sure if God exists (I doubt).

Madhairday - exactly. It's ok for you to think that a person who believes in the tooth fairy has some kind of mh problem, but not ok for an atheist to think that about a Christian. And why is that? Well it's simply a matter of the popularity of one delusion over the other. Plus the power and establishment support that grew around the group of people with whom it is popular. It's not because it has any greater basis in fact than the tooth fairy.

I mean - ok, I obviously don't actually think that all religious belief is the product of a mh problem, because clearly I know plenty of religious people who are otherwise totally rational. But I do believe that religion was simply a product of a combination of fear, a desire to understand perplexing natural phenomena, the comfort to be found in tradition and ritual, and an enjoyment of telling stories. Not to mention a desire to create a community and reject or attack all those who do not conform to its rules.

But I do believe that religion was simply a product of a combination of fear,

However Christian belief is not about fear, at all. In fact the Bible tells us that God has not given us the spirit of fear...

Jesus did not conform to the rules...in the way people expected a Messiah to anyway.

I try very hard to hide in real life the complete contempt I have for those who believe, I know lots and they are lovely people but yes I do feel superior, I can't help it, I just don't understand how they can have these beliefs?

god either exists and is powerful and can effect change in this world - if this is true he is sick and evil given the many cruel and awful things he allows to happen or does not prevent especially in his own name (priests and nuns in Ireland for example)

Or he is not powerful and cannot effect change and therefore is not a god !

I honestly can see a distant future when humans will look at our major world religions in the same way we look back at the Egyptians / Greeks / Vikings etc..

Snow contempt is never good to hold onto...why?

As for Egyptians, Greeks and Vikings, I love them. Any bit of history, archeology and the humanity shines through, to me, the years melt away and it makes me feel quite teary.

I didn't mean that any religion says it is based on fear - of course they don't! I meant that the human need to create religious beliefs comes partly from fear. The ancient yearning for a powerful protector, the fear of a lack of further meaning for life, the fear of death etc.

Holmes, your assertion, concerning the origins of religion, contains as much belief as the religion(s) you criticise.

I wish I didn't feel this way it happens automatically, I meet someone we chat, get on, I think they are very nice then at some point it becomes clear or they tell me they are religious and bam they drop down hugely in my estimations! I hope they don't realise and I will continue to be pleasant and friendly !

Snow - I excuse religious friends because they have all been heavily indoctrinated from early childhood.

On the other hand, astrology, Reiki, and the like have no excuse and I do regard their fans differently.

Cote I wasn't....where does that leave me? Friend or foe?

" a baby has to have the faith they will be able to walk before they get up and do it."

No they don't. They just are driven by instinct to progress. They don 't consciously think about planning to walk- it's just the next thing they do.

The funny thing is I am more understanding of older generations as it was what they where born into, it's a community thing for many. It's my own and younger generation I don't understand, seeing the horrors that go on worldwide and multiplying that exponentially given that only a small percentage are actually reported, how can they still believe. With today's technology in video etc... and yet no one can provide honest proof of a genuine miracle ! It baffles me !

Hak instinct? What are the origins of instinct and can we override it? Are we slaves to our biology?

Not a belief I want. Without free will what am I?

You weren't... What, capsium?

What baby thinks is probably something like "Oooh, shiny! I want! See if I can reach it if I push on my foot, just like this...".

Not Indoctrinated. I was Christened C of E. Mother lapsed Catholic, then witch for a time, then Catholic in belief again. Father, now self professed atheist, but one who recommended I read the King James when I was a child. Not taken to church very regularly but visited many churches as a tourist and for weddings, Christenings and funerals and Carol concerts....

Much was debated in our family and still is.