Where are all the reasonable Muslims?

[BananaChips]

So recently there has been the mass kidnapping (and forced conversion) of hundreds of school girls in Nigeria, and now today in the news a woman in Sudan is condemned to death because she refuses to renounce her faith for Islam.

Numerous political figures across the world and some other-religion figures (Archibishop of Canterbury if I recall) have spoken out against the kidnappings, albeit not in terms of religion.

But I'm sincerely curious as to why there seems to have been no one from the Islamic faith who have spoken out against these two recent atrocities. Is it just that the UK news media have not reported it? Is it that no one has spoken against these tragedies? Would we be wrong to say that these actions are putting Islam in a bad light? These actions are being carried out with distinct emphasis on religious grounds.

I am not trying to stir up any anti-religious feelings, I just want to understand why these acts have not been roundly denounced by members of their own faith. (Please point me towards it, if I've missed any in the news...)

Do we have to have Islam bashing though?

There could be:
Theological discussions regarding the veracity or not, of various religious beliefs.

Talking about social issues which are usually erroneously associated Islam or other religious beliefs. It doesn't need to be a bashing session, as people may well find the Muslim posters on here agree with them and could actually tell them how Muslims and other groups are combating these issues.

When talking about geopolitical situations abroad, we could afford them the same nuance and complexity that we view events in the West, rather then thinking that if Muslim people are involved, everything is allll about Islam.

We can talk about a secular state and what that means in practice.

Those would all be interesting discussions. People misquoting the Quran, claiming they can read the minds of niqabi women despite never having spoken to anyone wearing niqab ever, calling Muslim posters on MN brainwashed or mentally ill.. that's usually what Islam bashing entails, however knowlegable a few people in the discussion might be.

While I know that people frequently say things on the internet they wouldn't say in RL, I find it very disturbing the venom people spout on here. It makes me glad to live in an area where being Muslim is normal and accepted.

in regard to Islam in the UK, I think if mistreatment of christians by Moslems/people who claim to follow Islam? in ME happens, what is to stop it here in the long run. perhaps that is irrational.

I read an article in the Times today about George Carey ex archbishop of Canterbury trying to intervene to help the lady in Sudan but couldn't find it online.

I also appreciate the thread and I don't mean to Islam bash but ooh it is better to discuss things in the open.

Christians have a long history of persecuting Muslims Almeci so what's to stop them doing it here and now?

legislation and equality prevails strongly here plus alot of the persecution went on yester year rather than today. Hopefully we have all moved forward.

lets face it the "Christian" church persecuted everyone who didn't follow the church's teachings of the time, it was more power and politics than the love of christ.

And the same is happening in ME now. If we are to protect the rights of Muslims/Christians and everyone else in this country, we need to ensure that rights are enshrined in law and challenge ignorance and hate mongering where and when they crop up.

I don't think it is hate mongering on this thread, it is debate. if you stifle people's opinions, it causes resentment.

I was on another thread with Marcus. She and others have been hate mongering Alemci, in fact it has been going on for quite a while on MN. Some of the posts have been the stuff you'd hear chanted at EDL protests. And all this against a predominately non-white minority in this country. Can you imagine how frightening that is?

I see Dionne. that's not good.

But womens (minority and any one else who doesnt believe in it) status and issues in Islam are just NOT equitable and popular Islam seems to be just intent on dragging humanity back into thedark ages .... but now we just are not allowed to say any of this because of being labled racist .

like here is just a mild case of course the comment is.. "Iranian woman is the symbol of chastity and innocence," he added. Hatami's "inappropriate presence" at the festival was "not in line with our religious beliefs".

I mean what is that all about?.. if I was her I wouldnt be going back ..(actually I dont think she could if she wants to say safe, so not progerssive or equal or equitable at all. )

BTWI dont believe in ANY god , prophet religion etc.. I believe they are all just myths and stories designed to keep people(that is those Who must be controlled unless they upset the status quo) in their place .

Similarly Nigel Farage, Nick Griffin and all their followers are intent on doing the same thing. Human rights, need to be fought for and maintained.

Blaming law abiding British Muslims for the actions of terrorists and power crazed megalomaniacs across the globe is racist, sectarian and disgusting. Thinking that abolishing religion will stop people doing thoroughly unpleasant things to others is immature, short sighted and doesn't stand up to analysis.

Gay civil rights aside, has this question been asked so much about Christians and what has occurred in the world (up to today) and justified in its name. Great Britain became great off of a lot of terrorism that she committed using Christianity as justification.
I'd be furious if people expected me (if I was a practising Muslim) to start mealy mouthing and "begging" understanding every time some fuckery in the name of Islam is committed. It reminds me of the kiss teeth and cut eye I gave an ex colleague after the last London riots with her "but you're not like them".

Rude and racist (waiting for a pedantic "Islam isn't a race" troll to come on in). I have no dog in this fight ( not being Muslim), but I have a load of empathy for everyday Muslims going about their business, expected to cry to non muslims about their reasonableness, every time an unreasonable act is committed in the name of Islam.

Gay civil rights aside, has this question been asked so much about Christians and what has occurred in the world (up to today) and justified in its name? Great Britain became great off of a lot of terrorism that she committed using Christianity as justification.
I'd be furious if people expected me (if I was a practising Muslim) to start mealy mouthing and "begging" understanding every time some fuckery in the name of Islam is committed. It reminds me of the kiss teeth and cut eye I gave an ex colleague after the last London riots with her "but you're not like them"comment.

Rude and racist (waiting for a pedantic "Islam isn't a race" troll to come on in). I have no dog in this fight ( not being Muslim), but I have a load of empathy for everyday Muslims going about their business, expected to cry to non muslims about their reasonableness, every time an unreasonable act is committed in the name of Islam.

Laska you really need to educate yourself fully about the role and elevated position of women in Islam. I am fairly ignorant myself on this issue, but your post really shows that you may not have bothered to read the thread and the contributions made by some knowledgable Muslim posters. Every single one of the Muslim women I know is holding down a professional role and many act as mentors to younger women in their community. I have honestly yet to meet the kind of repressed, downtrodden Muslim woman portrayed by the media in the country.

What exactly do you mean by 'popular islam'? There is no such thing for Muslims.

Anjem Choudarys opinions on the Abu Hamza trial today are the kind of thing that make people wary of Islam. I read The Suicide Factory about the Mosque that Hamza used to recruit people into terrorism. It's abhorrent.

Crescent in your earlier post at the bottom are you saying Allah won't forgive people who go away from Islam or am I reading it wrong. I think I understand the idea that he never forces people to stay in the faith and they have freewill?

In christianity the New Testament and Jesus talk alot about forgiveness and uses the prodigal son parable to illustrate. Again it is up to individual to seek him, he doesn't force himself on us.

The historical context of the laws was very interesting and it makes sense. The governments with these just need to move forward now into the 21st century and modernise. Is that a fair comment?

thanks for all the information.

MrsStatham - Anjem Choudary is an attention-seeking extremist who says the most outrageous things he can think of in order to get media attention. Sadly the media are only too happy to indulge him.

Which leads to people like you saying that because of the words of one man, they are wary of the entire religion of Islam, which has over a billion adherents worldwide.

Mrs Bon - I think generally in the west we have difficulty navigating the differences between Sunnah, Hadiths and the Quaran, and the many different people who say what 'real' islam is.

Haven't been on this thread as have been away from MN for a few days, but can I just say thankyou to crescent , peaceful , gosh and other muslims for your balanced, informative and reasonable posts in the face of some pretty horrible stuff.

Most Muslims, like most Christians, are simply living their lives in their faith as best as they can. Funnily enough, they don't get reported in the news for their daily goodness or their upholding of their faith. It's only the extremists, who do not practise the faith they recognise or uphold. But this has all been said. i wonder why it had to be asked - sigh.

I am guessing that Anjem Choudhury is as representative of all muslims as Nick Griffin is representative for all white Brits!

It's completely different. Nick Griffin comes from a political party,of sorts, Anjem Choudary constantly speaks about the real Islam and Sharia Law. He appears to represent plenty of folk - all Muslims.

Nick Griffin only represents his political party.

How are groups like Quilliam perceived within the general muslim community?

Are they seen as moderators? or are they also in some ways creating unnecessary fear about muslims as they fight their war on extremism?