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Original poster

Who Wrote The Gospels?

940 replies

headinhands · 10/04/2014 08:53

"Matthew contains 606 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Luke contains 320 of Markâ??s 661 verses. Of the 55 verses of Mark which Matthew does not reproduce, Luke reproduces 31; therefore there are only 24 verses in all of Mark not reproduced somewhere in Matthew or Luke."

A good diagram here

OP posts:
capsium · 28/04/2014 10:06

niminy Regarding being provocative, I think I sometimes love it as much as Back. But funnily this strengthens my resolve to hold onto my Christian beliefs.....

Some very staunch atheist views actually spur me on, I love it that I can believe, in the Good News, despite what people say, and I am still here, very much alive, despite not living my life according to their brand of reason and logic! Grin

So I even get chance to be rebellious, in a very good way...

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 10:11

The one truth about why the Bible exists, what is fact and what is fiction, and what it all means is NOBODY ACTUALLY KNOWS. And nobody ever will.

Yes a lot of people take great pleasure from studying it, mulling it over, pontificating about it. And many (ignorant) people are convinced of that their take on it is the correct one.

But it seems a lot of trouble and angst to go to when, at the end of the day, nobody will actually find out whether they are right or not.

niminypiminy · 28/04/2014 10:16

capsium yes, sure. I just wanted to call a spade a spade.

capsium · 28/04/2014 10:25

Shipping It doesn't have to be full of trouble and angst, although I think a bit adds interest, it challenges your thinking - which I like. I want this from most books I read. At university I preferred the more 'difficult texts' because there was more to write about. If I had to practically translate, from Middle English, all the better. 'Chick-lit' just wouldn't have cut it.

nobody will actually find out whether they are right or not. , ah but I believe we will, in the end.

deep Do you know for a long time I decided that the measure of a good book was being able to read then ending first and it still not ruining the story? A good ending should make you want to read how the story was brought to that end. I then decided a good book meant I should be able to pick any page at random and still want to read on to find out how it began and ends.

..and I'm still reading and re-reading the Bible. Smile It still is a best seller. Fantastic!

www.guinnessworldrecords.com/records-1/best-selling-book-of-non-fiction/

capsium · 28/04/2014 10:27

^although I would say, of course, that the Bible is true, although it does contain narrative.

capsium · 28/04/2014 10:33

The above is why I find experiencing a bit of Cognitive Dissonance is exciting, it adds spice to life...makes you forget yourself.

madhairday · 28/04/2014 10:41

Just popping in to say still reading, still enjoying as ever. Just really not well so don't have very formed thoughts or words right now (and even less so in next 2 weeks as on IVs)

But a quick one to say I thought the same as niminy about what Back said about the Christian on the street not knowing about gospel authorship etc. this is really not my experience! Everywhere I have been in terms of churches and church groups have taught this kind of stuff and seen it as important for people to get the backdrop to their faith - they can't just read something and take it at face value in a vaccuum kind of way - they need to know where it comes from and why. Whenever dh speaks on a passage he loves to go into the background, not only the authorship/date/context but the greek because he is a geek and real meanings in light of all those factors.

Of course there will be ignorant people, but most Christians who are serious about their faith tend to find this kind of stuff out - there are those who don't care very much and have a very simple kind of faith and that's fine as well I think - but in general we have reason for a reason. And all that.

As you were, and nice to see you Holo

HowardTJMoon · 28/04/2014 10:49

The simplest way in which we can understand this is the one I have already hinted at: this is what God wants you to hear.

So the Abrahamic god wants us to hear the Bible, warts and all. Which pre-supposes he exerts some control over what appears in the Bible. So which version of the Bible are we supposed to regard as correct and authentic to your god's message? The Talmud? The KJV version? The Catholic one? The Jehovah's Witness' preferred translation? The book of Mormon? The Qur'an? How are we supposed to choose?

So it is not that God approves of everything that happens in the Bible the floods and the genocides and the details of the law but that we need to see these as the stories of how people responded to God at that time.

So your god doesn't approve of the things that he is reputed to have done? He doesn't approve of his own decision to murder innocent Egyptian children for the crimes of Pharaoh even though the same god was stopping Pharaoh from letting the Israelites go? Was your god having some kind of psychotic episode at the time?

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 10:51

"nobody will actually find out whether they are right or not. , ah but I believe we will, in the end."

How, exactly? Will there be Bible classes in Heaven, where God himself stands there at the front of a great lecture theatre explaining each bit, verse by verse? I can understand that you believe Heaven exists, but really - believing that it will happen in this sort of detail is a bit bizarre. IMHO.

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 11:01

"It doesn't have to be full of trouble and angst"

Well plenty of angst is caused as a result of various idiot groups believing that they are 'right' when it comes to religion. When they can't possibly know any such thing and it's all down to interpretation.

capsium · 28/04/2014 11:08

Shipping Understanding can be intuitive you know. I believe in Heaven we will be at one with God, which involves knowing.

Howard Not all those books you mention are the Bible though...the clue is in the title. Wink Regarding translation I would recommend which ever one reaches you, whichever one you are moved by.

Shipping Idiot groups in any walk of life will cause angst...Christians are not immune, as we are actually still human!

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 11:42

caps - "Understanding can be intuitive you know. I believe in Heaven we will be at one with God, which involves knowing."

Knowing what, though? If you don't know, how will you know you were right?

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 11:49

And what if Heaven and God turn out to be nothing like what you imagined, and the idiot factions were right all along?

capsium · 28/04/2014 12:22

Shipping I don't have to be right, I'll just be happy to be with God.

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 12:43

Even if he's not very nice? What I'm getting at is that you almost certainly DO have an idea of what you are expecting, even if you are not consciously aware of it.

capsium · 28/04/2014 13:08

Shipping Yes, it is a correct, I DO have an idea of what I am expecting. I can know everything, in Christ. I know God through Christ and I definitely would NOT describe Christ as being '...not very nice...', as you suggest...the opposite in fact.

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 13:16

Well then you're back to interpretations and guesses about what Jesus was like and whether he even existed. Nobody can say (truthfully) that they have met him, that they know he is the son of god, or that he isn't a mythical figure.

He might have existed and benefitted from good press, or he might just have been a storybook hero. Nobody can prove anything about the actuality, and those that say they know the truth can only be lying.

capsium · 28/04/2014 13:25

Shipping That's why believing in Jesus, is a choice. You choose whether to or not.

deepinthewoods · 28/04/2014 13:28

I don't think you can choose to believe- faith is an emotional thing surely.
I could not overcome my intellectual criticism in order to have faith, so I don't really have a choice but to be an atheist.

capsium · 28/04/2014 13:32

I can, choose to believe and have faith, deep, and I'm not unintellectual either.

ShippingForecast · 28/04/2014 13:32

"You choose whether to or not."

Well I would say that to hold a position of claiming to 'know' when you actually don't is to be dishonest with yourself and others.

niminypiminy · 28/04/2014 13:34

I think for many people faith is about both reason and emotion (and there's very solid neuroscientific research showing that reason and emotion are connected in the way the brain works). It certainly is so for me -- I can't assent to something that I don't have reason to believe.

Original poster
headinhands · 28/04/2014 13:35

Choosing to believe seems a bit like pretending. Could you chose to believe in a different god caps?

OP posts:
capsium · 28/04/2014 13:35

Deep You must control your emotions to some extent....surely.

Otherwise you would not be able to function in times of stress, not be able to overcome fear, anger etc. I think we have to learn to control our emotions in life.

capsium · 28/04/2014 13:36

Why do you want me to head?

But yes, I can choose.

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