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Philosophy/religion

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genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

999 replies

kentishgirl · 21/03/2014 11:26

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

OP posts:
CasualCobra · 22/03/2014 15:40

Capsicum: "Jesus fulfilled the Law of the OT."

Matthew 5:17. The law was not being replaced, but fulfilled.

capsium · 22/03/2014 15:43

Yep.

? What have I missed?

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 15:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CasualCobra · 22/03/2014 15:49

NinjaLeprechaun: "As that's the Old Testament, and not directly related to the practice of Christianity"

The Old Testament is part of Christian teachings. It is the same God.

CasualCobra · 22/03/2014 15:52

NinjaLeprechaun: "it's obvious that God mellowed a lot after he became a father"

Coincidentally, he mellowed as human reasoning developed.

capsium · 22/03/2014 15:54

BigDorrit do you like the 'Song of Ice and Fire' series? (Game of Thrones). Very popular, bloody brutal though. What does that say about human nature? This is modern, albeit fiction.

OT same God different covenant. Redemption through Christ changed everything.

capsium · 22/03/2014 15:58

And I think human reasoning has been around for an age. Plato? Pythagoras anyone?

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 16:00

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BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 16:03

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capsium · 22/03/2014 16:09

I've a very interesting book entitled,

"Game of Thrones and Philosophy...Logic cuts deeper than swords" edited by Henry Jacoby.

I would recommend it, very interesting. But yes, I am a fan. 'You know nothing, Jon Snow....'

I think a lot of books have something to say about morality. I don't agree with it all though.

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:10

What about the ancient Egyptians? Some great building technology there. And I seem to remember something about a form of battery, although I could be wrong...

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 16:16

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:18

BigDorrit That last comment was in reference to the sophistication of ancient people and how long technology and reasoning has existed.

headinhands · 22/03/2014 16:21

Nah my friend tells me the pyramids were built by aliens. She saw it on a program called Ancient Aliens dontcha know.

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:23

head interesting.........

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE...

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:26

...Well it just shows that reasoning is not everything. Something which I'm very thankful for myself. Grin

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:27

I wouldn't underestimate a goat herder either...

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:30

OOh oooh and think who witnessed Jesus' birth? Shepherds...

CasualCobra · 22/03/2014 16:35

capsium: "Yep. ? What have I missed?"

OK, you agree with BigDorrit's point about Jesus explicitly stating that the Old Testament still applied and wasn't replaced by the New.

My mistake, I read your response as disagreeing. Apologies for that.

bluepen · 22/03/2014 16:37

BigDorrit.

Part of the reason is because some of the first shall be last, and some of the last shall be first.

atthestrokeoftwelve · 22/03/2014 16:39

I am glad that this thread has been able to run whilst contain some very opposing and diverse views. There has been some mud slinging either way, but no-one has stormed off, the thread hasn't been moderated, and there has been no personal attacks or abuse. So that in itself is an an achievement. Glad to all who contibutes- even my antagonists!!

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:42

Casual No worries.

The Law is fulfilled in Jesus, not destroyed by Him. Because God, by Grace, through our Faith in Jesus Christ, changes Christian's nature,we are no longer under the Law but under Grace. But we actually want to do the right thing anyway because our nature is changed.

I like it to your child admitting, truthfully, they were wrong about something and deciding to trust what you tell them. They then want to observe closely what you say and emulate you. Although they might still get it wrong sometimes, you don't mind because the intention is there, and they will improve.

CasualCobra · 22/03/2014 16:44

capsium: And I think human reasoning has been around for an age. Plato? Pythagoras anyone?

Who would have been part of the development of reason. The behaviour of deities would be viewed differently after a succession of such thinkers. And it's very possible that the new prophets would alter the tone of "God" accordingly.

capsium · 22/03/2014 16:46

atthestroke Ah, don't worry I am used to banter. I haven't thrown the i-pad at the wall yet...Grin

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