genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

[kentishgirl]

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

Capsium, I don't understand lots of things too. But we go on ... 'The beginning of wisdom is this, get wisdom, and whatever else you get, get insight.' (Prov 4.7) And I learn a lot from reading your posts!

niminy And I do from yours niminy .

That's a hilarious piece of fiction, BigDorrit.

Each to their own BigDorrit...

Although I would term evil you have described as corruption within the church.... I also believe that many religions are evolved from an original Truth. Hence the commonality between them. Festivals were not stolen, they just grew from that commonality.

Well just see how you go with that BigDorrit. Jesus is here for you, if you decide to call on Him though.

I don't support the those evil acts though BigDorrit and I am a Christian, therefore part of the church (Christ's followers).

Lucifer is the Devil or Satan....

I agree with Bigdorritt, new and old testament vary wildly in their stances on things. I think OP you are talking about Catholicism/confession where in fact you shouldn't do these things to begin with lol.

I'm no hardcore christian, to me its like a philosophy for life. I just don't get some Christians judgmentalism, did Jesus ever do that - he hung around with anyone. All the anti fossil and Dinosaur crap as well does my head in.

Ok catching up.

Contemplates Making the best of of a random disaster is a different thing entirely.

God doesn’t cause the suffering and pain that we experience.
God doesn’t pay satan to destroy people.

I'm sorry Contemplates, but that's not what Christians are telling me. I have been told even here on MN that he will make someone suffer so that a Christian gets the chance to learn from it or be inspired.

They say he created the devil and in the book of Job god encourages Satan to hurt people to prove a point and to tempt them to be evil.

When I asked "What about if he just stopped Satan from actively pushing people into doing evil?" You said:

You’re forgetting that these events happened long before you and I appeared, and will continue long after we are departed.

Not sure what that has to do with anything.

If God stopped satan when we decided he should, our world would be perfect now

What do you mean by that? We'd still have free will to make mistakes. Are you now claiming that even with free will we'd only act badly if the devil made us? That a pretty dramatic departure and surely undermines everything else.

BigDorrit I liked your interpretation and it really does fit better.

It's funny how each Christian knows they have the right interpretation. I frequently quote Christians only to be told by other Christians that it's nonsense. They claim that their faith has led them to the right belief, but happily dismiss the faith of all the others who have been led elsewhere.

It's almost as if Christians think that faith can lead you to believe things that just aren't true.

BigDorrit

Those are just names. Given the right marketing it was believed that smoking was healthy.

I agree to an extent. If I wasn't a Christian I could very easily be a person who would get caught up entirely with Post Modernism and relativism. I can tell you this is not pretty..analysis paralysis and finding decisions very difficult is what I can remember of my life before I started to pursue my Christian beliefs more seriously.

Thing is, for me, is that without God morality is a relative concept. In that there are no absolutes. There is not consistency between different societies. Here is what I said on another thread.

....I think beliefs, especially societal beliefs, can affect the way morality is viewed, even change us as people at a very deep level.

If you are interested in languages this idea transfers across to questions concerning whether language ability is inbuilt into our biology or cultural.

Traditionalists argue that language ability is inbuilt and is defined by certain features, grammar for example. However Daniel Everett's with the Pirahã people work turns this kind of thinking on it's head. They have no recursion in their language, no narrative, talking about anything outside their immediate experience is seen as Taboo, they will say it has gone out of existence.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_people

Brain physiologists have noted language ability coinciding with certain brain features / development. Thus it would seem a very different form of language ability, such as the Pirahã display, would coincide with a different form of brain development /features. The existence of the Pirahã show how diverse human kind is. Their 'morals', contained within their belief system, would also show differences to Western Society.

So I do not think there is consistency within human kind concerning morality.

Now Christianity has given me a belief structure. Which I sorely needed. I got to a point where I felt I could argue my way in or out of anything. Which is not a good feeling...I was lost. Pursuing my Christian beliefs (I already had residual belief) gave meaning to my life.

The whole concept of Free Will, outside of religious belief, is something that is a very moot point...

The Pirahã are not particularly Christian BigDorrit..

Slavery, whilst I vehemently disagree with it, was common across Pagan societies as well. It is essentially a feature of war. Ditto rape, barbarism. Only have to look at Viking society, Celtic society etc etc Ritual sacrifice was also a common feature.

What I am saying is that there is no absolute, no consistent view of morality within humanity. Outside of religious belief that is, but even within this, only God can judge. Humanity is fallible...

BigDorrit

Irrelevant...well I see the connection. You are attempting to judge Christianity, God.... I say in terms of which belief system? and how do you deem it superior?

What I am trying to say is that Christianity provides a leveller for me. I look to Christ, and view life in terms of Him, His nature.

BigDorrit Consistency? Got it. I understand this point, only too well. I can only speak from individual experience but my Christian belief has helped me find meaning again.