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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

genuine question from atheist - view on Christanity and personal responsibility

999 replies

kentishgirl · 21/03/2014 11:26

Hi - promise this isn't just Christian-baiting.

I've come to the conclusion that Christianity is a substitute for having a personal conscience or taking personal responsibility. Being a Christian is like having a 'get out of jail free card' in that you are taught God will forgive you anything. So you can do anything, as bad as you like, go and pray for forgiveness and move on, slate wiped clean, feeling great about yourself. So it doesn't matter if you do wrong. As an atheist, if I do something wrong, it's always with me, it's always on my conscience, so that makes me always try to do the right thing.
I didn't always think this way. It's the only way I can make any sense of something that happened to me at the hands of a couple of serious, committed Christians. One of them even works full time for a church. They did something terrible to me but have shown no remorse, no guilt, and made no attempt to make things right with me. I'm positive they prayed for guidance at the time and then forgiveness afterwards, and now all's good in their world, while I'm still dealing with the fall-out.
Am I really wrong in interpreting Christianity in this way? Isn't it true that it enables horrible behaviour by teaching you that if you do wrong, all you've got to do is pray for forgiveness afterwards, and you are ok, never mind the effect of what you did? Basically if God is your only judge, and forgiveness is guaranteed, it gives you permission to act like a right bastard as long as you say sorry to God afterwards? there's no personal responsibility for what you have done.

OP posts:
capsium · 22/03/2014 17:58

Certainly, if you think how important the right words are for reassuring people when they are suffering from stress or anxiety, I can see how the right words make a huge difference.

capsium · 22/03/2014 18:00

Of course what Jesus did is much more amazing than that. But I think what I posted above shows just a little of what is possible.

capsium · 22/03/2014 18:11

And that would have prevented them from understanding the concept?

If you are familiar with any 'Scaffolding' concepts in 'The Theory of Mind' you will understand how some knowledge is foundational. IMO the OT leads us up to Christ, who is our 'foundation stone.'

Now I don't go completely with 'Scaffolding' I think learning is less linear and more of a web like pattern, with individuals interacting with their individual experiences. Grace circumvents the need for linear learning as God knows us as individuals. But being under Grace, not the Law, came with the New Testament and Redemption through Christ.

capsium · 22/03/2014 18:16

^ and we interact with God's Holy Spirit. Jesus describes His words as spirit.

capsium · 22/03/2014 18:55

It is interesting that images of brain physiology has shown neural pathways to appear like tree structures. Some appear to have round fruits, some thorns. The thorn like structures have been found, by some, to correlate with stress disorders and the fruit like structure with good mental health and happiness. This is very interesting when considering Bible imagery.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=neural+pathways+images&client=opera&hs=NgS&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=dNstU9uYAeKt7Qbvx4DgDg&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=972#facrc=&imgdii=&imgrc=8PGBppipVcy9MM%253A%3BnaLgTvBIZ4brIM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.theemotionmachine.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252FneuronGrowthDeath.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.theemotionmachine.com%252Fmindfulness-and-neuroplasticity%3B747%3B476

capsium · 22/03/2014 18:56

I've not had a look at much of the research but found the images fascinating.

capsium · 22/03/2014 19:10

Just musings really but I like to think about these sort of things.

I have studied a bit of narrative theory, learning theory and psychology and this is the sort of thing that comes to my mind when you grow used to reading symbolism and narrative features and make connections in relation to psychology - which naturally leads onto physiology.

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 20:21

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capsium · 22/03/2014 20:28

It refers back to the dawn of time....retrospectively.

capsium · 22/03/2014 20:30

Like we refer back to history. Oral traditions existed before things were written down.

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 20:37

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capsium · 22/03/2014 20:53

I do claim this. I belief Truth has been preserved.

Oral tradition is great for delivering Truth to most effectively reach the current audience. That is the language and narrative evolves to reach the current audience most effectively. It's why Jesus told parables using farming and fishing imagery.

This is also why I am happy with new translations, I believe you can be drawn to a translation which can reach you best as an individual, which most effectively communicates Truth to you. We each use slightly different language, dialect and so on.

I am most comfortable with the King James translation, but then I was more comfortable with the older literature I studied at university. The modern stuff I found very difficult to write about.

bluepen · 22/03/2014 20:54

All scripture is inspired by God.

BackOnlyBriefly · 22/03/2014 20:58

Presumably the bible (even in oral form) was much smaller back then. I mean 2 weeks after Adam & Eve ate the avocado it would have consisted of a story about "How I made a universe in 1 week" plus a couple of diary entries saying something like "That woman got me in a lot of trouble" and "that man is blaming me for everything as usual".

capsium · 22/03/2014 20:59

To be honest when I hear old manuscripts read from old and Middle English they seem surprisingly current and relevant to me.

People's motivations, relationships and aspirations in very old texts I find touchingly moving, in their similarity to our everyday lives today.

capsium · 22/03/2014 21:01

back Grin see what I mean. The enmity lives on...

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 21:25

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capsium · 22/03/2014 21:34

Hmm I wouldn't fancying trying following Lucifer...

God did tell the Truth, human kind do die. However Redemption through Christ means our spirits can now live on eternally in the afterlife, if we choose to believe on Him.

And the tree of knowledge was our Fall because knowledge without God (good) corrupts. Ethics that is...

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 21:38

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capsium · 22/03/2014 21:41

Don't think so 'surely die' from my remembrance.

Not counted up but Satan is synonymous with evil, death and corruption.

capsium · 22/03/2014 21:42

Or I should say connected rather than synominous.

BigDorrit · 22/03/2014 21:48

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capsium · 22/03/2014 21:52

Faith is by choice BigDorrit.

headinhands · 22/03/2014 22:00

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread602571/pg1

bluepen · 22/03/2014 22:06

God is allowed to kill. He owns everything and everyone. There is no escape. Resistance is futile. Utterly pointless and ultimately worse.
Hell exists. About 1/3 of the population are going there.