Exactly what will happen upon my demise

[DoctorTwo]

You will have noticed the title is a statement not a question. What is certain to happen is you lot and all this will cease to exist.

I'm not trying to be mean, but that's just the way it is.

Curlew, why do you ask questions?

Oh you are mistaken Curlew. Expressing a strong view regarding the absence of an afterlife is fine and is indeed one of the reasons this section exists.

Expressing the view that others who don't share your view are "damaging and childlike" is sneery and bitchy and not in the spirit of promoting open discussion about beliefs.

I ask question for clarification of points I have not understood, to aquire more information or if I think I have misunderstood. I then respond to the the answer.

Ah.

Are you saying that if you genuinely think that somebody's beliefs are damaging and childlike you are not allowed to say so?

Not at all. By all means say so, but don't be surprised if the sneery attitude is questioned or commented upon.

Please will you cut and where the OP has sneered, judged or been bitchy.

Dione - saying that a particular belief is "damaging and childlike" is a mile away from saying that the person who holds that belief is.

It is entirely possible to address a belief without attacking the person who is holding it. This is an important distinction that you consistently fail to grasp.

All this crap about "personal beliefs" is an enormous red herring, specifically designed to shame people into shutting up. Niminy, for example, may personally hold the belief that a dead Palestinian walked out of his tomb three days after he died, but the belief is not personal to her - it existed for thousands of years before she was born and is shared by several billion people today. Addressing that belief, or even ridiculing it, is not attacking anyone personally. If they chose to take it personally, that's completely up to them.

Do you get it now? Finally?

And, by the way, calling people "bigots" & putting words in their mouths is absolutely disgraceful.

So, in the hope that you are capable of being honest, I ask again......a direct quote showing that Curlew or anyone else said that a person holding a particular belief is "lesser & dangerous".

Sorry for not being here to comment for the past few days, my pc broke and it's taken an age to fix it. For the record, I'm not attempting to troll the dying and bereaved, we are all, after all's said and done, only a moment away from death and oblivion. I think death needs to be spoken about more in order to demystify it. We all know it's going to happen, with most of us not knowing how or when.

I had a friend who died of cancer a couple of years ago who was an atheist till the end despite the exhortations of his son who happens to be a minister. He was very open about his thoughts on religion (his words were not kind at all, made me look very reasonable) and death, his only sorrow was for the wife he left behind. She's a Catholic, not that it matters.

Religion gives you a get out clause for everything: you get ill, it's part of god's plan. You get better after treatment, you thank god instead of your doctors and the treatment(s) you received. If you pray hard enough such and such will happen. Well, I have news for you: one pair of hands doing something always achieves more than a thousand pairs of hands clasped in prayer.

You get better, you thank god, instead of your doctors

Seriously Doctor? Did you not thank the medical team when your wife gave birth?. I thank my nurse practioner when she just sees me.

Do you really think that because people believe in god they don't thank those treating them? If so, you are wrong. Go along to any Marie Curie, Macmillan Nursing, hospice or health charity fundraiser. You will find people of all faiths and none, not only thanking and praising their caregivers, but raising funds to help them.

Context is important. The full quote is:-

"Religion gives you a get out clause for everything: you get ill, it's part of god's plan. You get better after treatment, you thank god instead of your doctors and the treatment(s) you received"

You selected "You get better, you thank god, instead of your doctors"

Way to cherry pick, as per usual.

FTR, after an EMCS I thanked the team that saved the lives of my DS and his mother. Profusely, with tears running down my face. I didn't pause to pray to any of the thousands of gods I don't believe in. Not even yours.

You get better- it's because of the power of prayer
You don't get better-it's part of God's grand plan which we don't yet understand but which is for our ultimate good.

I can't stand the double think that reasoning requires.

Just to clarify Doctor, do you believe that people of faith do or don't thank their doctors?

Also, how come your DD was Christian? Is your DP religious?

yes, it's the mental gymnastics required to sustain these kind of beliefs past childhood that concern me. that isn't good for sanity (in the sense of rationality, coherence and not believing contradictory beliefs).

i think it is quite clear doctor what you meant by the god/doctors statement. just nitpicking and ritaskeeterism coming at you.

"the human crime and punishment system is based on the same kind of mental gymnastics."

What do you mean, crescentmoon?

To answer your inane questions Dione, I have no idea, I've never asked her and no, not in the slightest.

err it's not theism OR deterministic thinking with no consequences for actions or belief in choice crescent. what a strange conclusion

i suspect you need to investigate the realities of science and understanding of learning, consciousness, personality etc. it's not GOD or robots - really strange straw man.

are you saying with god there is no such thing as choice or agency???

perhaps also a look at humanism would be helpful for you.

I'm sorry, crescentmoon- I still don't understand. Unless you're saying that without faith, humans have no moral compass and therefore cannot be held responsible for their actions. Which surely you aren't saying, are you?

You're talking about determinism, Crescent? The idea that everything, including our choices, are the result of a long chain of events so not really our choice at all?

I'm quite convinced by determinism, and I don't think (strictly speaking) that we do have free will in the way we think we do.

But punishing crime is not just about the punishment bit - it's about justice and prevention too. So even if a murderer isn't, strictly speaking, entirely responsible for his actions, it's still important to take him off the streets and lock him up.

Understanding why things happen does not let people off the hook for their actions & neither should it.

(I believe we have something akin to free will, btw, it's just not as complete as it feels. Obviously, IMO).

Oh, and those religious people who thank their doctors (most, probably) often thank god for working through the doctor.

10 solid years of training is irrelevant - actually, it was all down to god. I think that's quite rude.

So to recap Doctor, you do not know whether or not believers thank doctors (despite the claim in your 19/02 post) and throughout your DD's childhood, you did not talk to her about her faith, even though (or maybe because?) it differed from you and your DW's philosophy.

What was your intention when you started this thread Doctor? What direction did you want it to take?

Did you come here with the intention of demystifying death?