Welcome to muslim tea room 2.

[defuse]

Peace to you all

Ok, well here it is again...we have moved to room 2 now

Discuss whatever aspect of islam you like my lovely sisters - this is a place for muslims and non-muslims too, to share experiences, raising kids or just having your say!

The kettle is on.... We have loads of herbal teas, coffee and guava juice .... I like guava juice so welcome!

Ijust found out about peaches geldof about an hour ago. I am in shock! She was so young and her little kids. So sad. Admittedly, i didnt know that she was married with kids.

Also watched a report about the Rwandan genocide. Cannot believe how forgiving they all are. It was inspiring. Was shocked to hear that half of Rwanda's population was born after the genocide and the number of kids born to rape victims was massive too. I just pray that nothing like that happens again - though there are still genocides happening all over the world.

Crescent I was actually thinking about jade goody today and her boys. It was mothers day when she died so it must of been her anniversary recently. So sad.

I've had two letters for an overdue smear test. I'm going to book it tomorrow alhamdullilah.

It's ds's birthday this week, do you celebrate birthdays? Or just mark the occasion with something small? Or do you not acknowledge it? Be interesting to hear what you all do.

Also can I ask you all a random question. How many scarves/hijabs do you own? I want to compare to see if I have a problem .

Defuse I was just looking up about the Rwandan genocide, it's too shocking for words, and then I came across this about Nigeria and oh my goodness it's sad. How tragic that in this day in age things like this are happening. I was just in a flap because my sky box wouldn't turn on and I was missing eastenders, and these people are suffering in an uncomprehendable way. My problems seem so small and pointless compared to this.

Thanks for that defuse. I see what you and others mean about there being no explicit prohibition, but it being better to use right hand. I guess for me, it was a case of I'm really trying hard to learn the quran and using my left hand comes naturally, and if I focus on that too much it might take some of my concentration away from actually learning the quran.

Thanks for the sympathy crescent, two of my children are right handed, just waiting for the youngest to grow up a bit more to find out inshaAllah. I hope for his sake that he is right handed, it makes life so much easier.

I also was saddened to hear about the death of Peaches Geldof. I always remember around the time that I reverted to Islam, 2006, she did a programme on channel 4 called A Beginner's Guide to Islam. I am a year younger than her and at the time it meant so much to me that someone like her, brought Islam to the fore in a different light to everything else that time. She has been on my radar ever since and I can't even imagine what it will be like for her young boys to grow up seeing what the paparazzi has to offer on the subject of their mother, having no memory of her themselves. It sickens me how the press intrudes into peoples' lives in such a grotesque and vulgar way. They are like vultures.

I am not really too familiar with particulars of the Rwandan genocide but I think I'll read up on it.

I read that "burqa" thread on here yesterday and I still can't believe how people are so willing and deluded to believe that most women wearing it are doing so because of family pressure and societal pressure. I have previously worn it and my non muslim family are not particularly enamoured towards it. They would have been happier for me not to. In fact that reason that I removed it was due to relocating, and being called a bomber and terrorist while heavily pregnant and out with my newborn shortly after. I felt threatened even though lots of people were nice to me. I didn't want my children hearing me be abused like that in the street, so I took it off. And I feel really sad about it too. I wish I had the strength and courage to wear it again but now my children are at school, I don't want my actions to cause them to be bullied. So I guess what I am trying to say is that it annoys me that people think that I have no strength of character at all and that I need saving when I consider myself and intelligent individual capable of critical thinking. Things like that always rile me.

InshaAllah soon, I'll be starting my OU course, I can't wait. I really want to start writing too. A novel hopefully. I'd really like it to have some basis in Islam, so please sisters if you have any ideas of what you'd like to see a book about, then let me know.

Hope everyone is enjoying the holidays so far, it's passing so quickly.

Salamalaykum sisters!

How are you all? Ive missed coming on here and reading your posts. I have been going through some drama but now all is well Alhamdulillah. I have to go back and read the thread to catch up but just thought I would post to let you all know Im thinking of you.

UmmSHI I have been on and off reading the burqa thread (as if anyone wears burqa in the UK ) and I have restrained myself from posting. I couldn't trust myself not to burst out with a load of !&%##%#~&. Plus I didnt want to have my posts deleted for breaking talk guidelines about insults. It was very tempting to get personal though. I mean imagine someone talking about their 'understanding' of Islam and then using the term Islamic women^. I think some people should start by understanding their own language first before they try to understand a world religion. Just saying.

I know many niqabis (I get a bit shocked when I count them up sometimes) and I dont know a single one who was forced to wear niqab. Im not denying that there may be people out there who are but I really doubt there is a large number of women in this country who are forced to wear it against their will. But it just shows how well the indoctrination and misrepresentation has worked that people are using the minority as representative of the majority. Imagine if we took the worst behaviour of some British people as representing how the majority of British people think and behave. Im sure there would be an outcry about tarring everyone with the same brush. But this is how muslims are treated routinely to the extent that I have been told many times even on mumsnet that the majority of muslims have misunderstood Islam and that it is the Radicals/terrorists/militants/ insert whatever term you like who have interpreted the Quran correctly. Thats why I am trying my best not to get involved in these debates because at the end of the day this is an ideological battle and it doesnt matter whether its niqabs, halal food, fasting in ramadhan, inheritance, schools, male circumcision people have already decided that you are the villian in all cases and will only listen to what they want to hear.

I was really upset today actually about something. Tell me if this ever happens to you or if I have totally overreacted (like my DH is convinced of). I went to town for the first time in a while today (I have been intensely busy with work and family) and I was ignored by the sales assistants 3 times. This is when I was actually queueing to pay. The sales assistant who was serving the line I was in just suddenly went off and started serving people in the second queue. As she was the only one there I thought maybe she had to divide her time equally but then she went and served two people from the other queue when I had been standing in my queue for a while and had seen her only serving those in our section. I was so angry because she had asked a lady in the other queue who was next and she had pointed to me and then she went and served her anyway. I just decided on the spot I am never going there again. The same thing happened in another shop where the woman had been serving people ahead of me and when it was my turn just waltzed off and started doing something in the back where I could still see her and she could see me. It was only when more people started lining up behind me that she came back and started serving me and then she was really cold with me but then started up a lively conversation with the people behind me. Thats partly why I dont believe any of the BS about people being sooooooo sad that they cant communicate with niqabis. I dont wear niqab and 90% of the time its me who strikes up conversation with people not the way round. In fact there have been times when I have smiled at people in my area where they have not only blanked me but shaken their head at me too. As if Ive sworn at them or something. I really hate where I live. There are not that many muslims living here and the ones that are here are so cultural that I just cant be asked to deal with them. I feel a lot of resentment towards both the muslim and non muslim community where I live I just feel like they are both narrow minded bigots. And breathe. Rant over!

Wa alaikum salam peaceful. I'm glad that you drama has been resolved, and welcome back.

I totally get what you are saying about both things you have mentioned above. It is definitely a test when people suggest that they know more about the religion you are following than you do yourself. I don't think any other religions would take kindly to their scripture being interpreted by any other than themselves.

As for what you mention about sales assistants, yes I have experienced exactly what you describe. And the nice and optimistic part of me wants to believe that there is another reason for the behaviour, but sadly quite often the more cynical (realistic) side in me wins and I resign myself to the fact that their behaviour is probably due to their prejudice. I am getting better at asserting myself now though, and making my voice heard. Of course most people will tell you that you are crying islamaphobia or racism. But when you continually experience things like this, it is hard not to reach the conclusions that you do. I think it is easy to pretend these things don't exist when you have a privilege in society based on being white in a majority white country. But being a woman of colour, I can maintain that this kind of prejudice is a part of my life, add a headscarf on top and at times you may as well be hitler.

Try not to let it get you down though, I know it is hard, but I try to concentrate on the good interactions I have instead, and seek the reward in my patience with these people.

Walaikum asalaam peaceful, it's nice to have you back.

It's sad to read you've both had experiences like that, some people are just so misinformed it riles me. I don't think I've ever had anything like that happen alhamdullilah. I like it when people have a bit of banter with me in a queue or something, I feel like it's people accepting me for who I am and that my hijab isn't a barrier. I actually get it quite a bit and it makes me smile and sometimes even makes my day needs to get a life.

But I don't think you're over reacting peaceful, that's just plain rude and I think you should make a complaint to the manager. Hopefully they'll have cctv and can see for themselves what kind of person they employ. I'm angry on your behalf.

Nopes not us, although I would if I had a car!

Assalamualaikum,

I've been busy with RL.

I had to reply to Lost tho, its happened to me too but aaaages ago, when I had my eldest, my sister and I went to the baby show and I wanted ot buy vitamins from the Vitabiotics stnad and every single assistant there studiosly ignored us and went one to serve (all of them) one person who appeared after us, we even waited till they were free but they disappeared or went to help other people not us.

I went home so upset that day and wrote a letter telling them how disgusted I was and I did say the only difference between me and the customer they were all fawning over was either skin colour or my headscarf.

They apologised profusely and sent me a gift in apology (the vitamins I was queuing to buy).

Now a days I just say, 'excuse me I'd like to pay please', and I am utterly polite in my dealings with them.

I can't govern other peoples behaviour but I can govern my reaction to them.

It hurts tho and is utterly mortifying.

I consider the beloved Prophet (saw) when it gets really hurtful and think of his reception in Taif, and more importantly his reaction. He replied with love, my heart's not that big but I can reply to their arrogance with kindness. I will never be of them and for that I am thankful of their behaviour towards me because it consciously makes me a better person. And who knows the recompense we get from Allah for it?

arrgghhhh I meant I'm replying to peaceful I cannot multi task late on a friday afternoon.

Jummah mubarak everyone, and remember the ummah in your duas today and do not forget to recite or listen ot surah Kahf

Aww its sad to hear that UmmSHI and fuzzy have had similar experiences. You must live in quite a nice area Lost if people are so friendly. I dont know whether to feel happy or sad that Im not the only one. UmmSHI and fuzzy thanks for the advice on how to deal with it. I do try to stay positive but sometimes it does get me really down. I have lived in this country for over a quarter of a century and people still treat me like an outsider. I came home wailing to my husband that we need to find another country to move to because I couldnt bear it if my future children were made to feel like the way I felt that day. He was a bit like calm down love . As if he understands what its like. I wonder if muslim men get that kind of treatment? My DH is a bit oblivious so he wouldnt notice it anyway.

I was wondering if you have ever had random strangers just approach you from nowhere and ask you about Islam or use an opportunity to just ask you about Islam. I was once catching a taxi and the taxi driver started asking me about niqab. Recently I was catching another taxi (im really lazy me) and the taxi driver told me that he had read the Quran and he was wondering why you muslims dont practise whats in it. I was a bit . He then went on to tell me about how his muslim friend died, how he had gone to the funeral and that had really effected him. It was quite interesting actually though I really didnt know what to say. Its normally women who approach me though. Once one of my friends had gone to town with her mum and a much older man stopped them and asked her if she was muslim. She was really scared as this was right after the Lee Rigby tragedy. He then started talking to her about his daughter who had converted and joined an extreme group of Islam and wasnt seeing him anymore. My friend ended up giving him some on the spot counselling and family relationship advice . I dont really mind when random people ask me questions it gives me the opportunity to correct some misunderstandings but it does baffle me how some people can be so bold in a culture that is normally quite reserved and hesitant to talk about religion. Another time a buddhist monk started talking to me about Islam and buddhism on the train. Please tell me its not just me.

Sorry to hear about you too crescent. Its not easy is it to maintain composure. Sometimes I feel like going off on one but then I think about the SHAME > Plus Im sure there would be a few raised eyebrows by the hijabi swearing her head off.

By the way I forgot to tell you. I managed to stop breastfeeding my ds. Alhamdulillah. Allahu Akbar. lol. It was really difficult because Im quite scared of him. But I sent him to my dm's house for a few days so that he would get used to not breastfeeding which he coped with quite well. As soon as he saw me though he started ripping at my top, pulling my hijab off and generally baby handling me. I stuck to my guns though and told him NO. It been a bit of a struggle and he sometimes regresses and gets a bit stroppy with me but I am no longer making milk so he has to get used to it. Its making me think again about breastfeeding for so long if I have another baby. He is just turning 20 months now so on the one hand I do feel guilty not to have waited it out for the full two years but my god it was so painful, the teeth, the super strong suction. Ugh. Glad to have stopped it. A sister had told me that after she stopped breastfeeding she went almost completely flat chested because of how empty she now was but luckily that hasnt happened to me. I think cause I was a little bit full (as my mum likes to say) before I started breastfeeding. Hope this isnt tmi for anyone and no one who I know finds this .

Crescent I can wait till the family break next week. I was really excited about it but then my friend had to go and text me that she was on holiday in Malaysia. I have always wanted to go to Malaysia on holiday. I always find it quite interesting visiting muslim countries. Its like you suddenly become invisible. No one notices you or gives you evils you just become part of the scenery. Well thats been my experience anyway but that could be that where I went on holiday I could have passed off for a local. Definitely wont pass off for one in Malaysia though.

*cant wait

Ah peaceful, you did very well getting to 20 months, alhamdullilah.

I do often think maybe I'm just oblivious to it all, I know when we moved into temporary accommodation last year the person checking us in said is there any reason why you might be discriminated against, and I said no. And he pointed out that I was a white hijabi so plenty of opportunity for people to discriminate. I was a bit taken back tbh.

Crescent that sounds awful, I would of thrown my receipt at him and told him to shove it where the sun don't shine. How have your little house guests been this week?

I've got a house full this afternoon for ds's birthday, and I'm still sat in my pj's having done nothing! Have a good weekend sisters.

I take that back about being invisible. You still get looks but less like the "please watch out for suspicious items" kind and more of the sleazy "where have you been all my life kind". lol. Sorry in a bit of a funny mood. Pregnancy hormones and bleach. Not a good combination.

I hope it goes well for you today Lost. Subhanallah they grow so fast. I remember when you told us about his birth. Mashallah. Time does fly.

Hello ladies I do hope I find you well.

I'm not shocked about some of your experiences with shop assistants etc however in your position I would not have been able to stay calm, composed or polite! I'm more of a EXCUSE ME I HAVE BEEN STOOD HERE FOR 10 MINUTES!!!! shouty person!! I do not wear a hijab though so not experienced anything like that in the first place.

Anyway ladies this is a totally me post but I must share my umrah experiences with you. What can I say? It was magical. Amazing. Indescribable. It totally took my breath away. I am home now and I sometimes lie on my bed, close my eyes and imagine the haram sharif and I feel like it hasn't been real.

The trip started with a bit of mayhem at Jeddah airport, there wasn't really any real order to anything, which had me worried and DH even in ihram was effing and jeffing with the queues. Anyway we managed to get to the hotel in Makkah easily (what a fab hotel too). We freshened up and made our way straight to the Kaaba. Wow. It is majestic and modest at the same time. Just looking at it felt so unreal. I really felt like a part of something when doing tawaf. With all the scores of people, my fellow muslim brothers and sisters. All different colours, creeds. It was so humbling. It was so special.

Both me and DH were surprised at how laid back it was there. Just sitting in the haram chatting to people. The atmosphere at night!!! And fajr prayer... That was the most special for me. I have never prayed salah in a mosque and I found salah to be more slowed, poised. It was definitely about quality and not quantity!!!

Madinah was beautiful and very emotional too. Now I don't wear hijab, niqab or anything at home but there was something else about wearing an abaya and scarf there. I didn't have to worry about make up, hair, the spots on my chin. It was all about prayer, reflection and spirituality and it felt liberating!!! I still do not feel able to wear the hijab here... Inshallah I will one day and I am a step closer.

Anyway I think I am waffling but umrah was just what I needed. It has strengthened my iman immensely. Can't believe We hadn't been sooner and I can't wait to go back! Inshallah hajj next for me.

Wsalam Tulip.

So glad your back safely. What a lovely post too. I love hearing about people's hajj and umrah experiences. I remember that feeling when I first saw the kaabah and I was like this cant be having. I felt as if I had walked in to a movie or something. It was like an out of body experience. I also loved fajr prayers in haram sharif. You know when you hear that adhan that you always hear on Islam channel and hear on adhan clocks. Hearing it live is electrifying. I cant remember how many times I cried whilst I was there because I couldnt believe it was happening. Your post brought back some lovely memories thank you. Did you manage to pray in Ar Rawdah in Madinah. I had some hilarious experiences there when I went on hajj because of the number of people all vying with you to get to pray in that part of the masjid. But I managed to pray there twice. The second time we went as soon as they opened the gates a big group of women including me and my mum all started running from that point to the rawdah. There were some male guards still in that section and they looked absolutely terrified to see this huge crowd of women running towards them . I havent been on umrah but planning to go this year just not sure when exactly. Hajj is a great experience and I would definitely recommend to go when you are fit and healthy. So many muslims leave it till they are in their old age and you seem them struggling to perform the rites. They are not difficult as such but you are sometimes walking long distances and having to stay in uncomfortable positions for a long stretch of time. Oh one other funny story. Me and my mum went to pray jumuah salah on the last day of hajj after Eid (a lot of pilgrims were leaving that day). Anyway when we came out there was a massive traffic jam of people. I think all the pilgrims wanted to pray jumuah salah before they left. ANyway we had to walk really slowly and carefully to avoid any accidents. As I was walking there was this incessant push from behind. This person clearly wanted me to get out of the way but I was having none of it and kept pushing back. After 15-20 minutes of this constant pressure at my back I finally just moved out of the way. To my shock the person who had been pushing me for the past 20 minutes was a tiny old Malaysian woman. She was at the head of this human train of Malaysian pilgrims, men and women, who were all single file, holding on to each others shoulders to avoid getting lost and leading this line was a woman half my size. She just shot past me with a smirk and within a minute I couldnt see any of the group. I guess other pilgrims knew better then to stand in the way of a Malaysian old lady.

Lovely to hear those accounts of Hajj. I can't wait until it is my turn inshaAllah, but I feel as though is is so far away.

I'm busy this week, but inshaAllah, I'll be back next week.