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Original poster

Is the Christian God's love unconditional?

902 replies

Woolmark · 20/11/2013 19:57

Ok, some questions which have been playing on my mind, I am genuinely interested.

Surely his love is on the condition that you are a) a Christian and b) follow his rules?

Also, if God loves everyone as much as he does, why can't he save everyone by simply appearing to them? If I could save my children by doing this then I would in an instant, rather than turning up at the end and destroying the ones who weren't Christian.

OP posts:

octopusinasantasack · 03/12/2013 18:32

capsium that's good to hear. I haven't had the same experience. Either I am rubbish at recognising an answered prayer or they have never been answered. I don't pray any more though.

A warning not to do something always seems to tempt people to do it, I don't know why. Presumably it's the same reason that our taste buds find all the most unhealthy foods to be delicious and the ones that are really good for us to be less attractive. Sod's law....

How could Adam and Eve reliably make a judgement to trust god when they have no idea if he can be trusted? If you were out somewhere and a complete stranger appeared and told you not to do something then would you take any notice? I'd be more inclined to think 'who are you to tell me I can't do it and then I'd do it anyway'

headinhands · 03/12/2013 18:40

Would a school ever knowingly put a child in a position where the wrong decision, out of a choice of just two, would make them responsible for bringing mass suffering to all of humanity

headinhands · 03/12/2013 18:41

Trusting is a judgement though.

headinhands · 03/12/2013 18:44

They were created adults yes, but they were created as adults, they had no life experience.

capsium · 03/12/2013 19:05

How do you know that all knowledge has to come from experience? Some knowledge could be innate. Adam and Eve had language.

octopusinasantasack · 03/12/2013 19:19

Having innate knowledge doesn't mean that they had the experience to understand how to use their knowledge though. For example, a child might have experience of certain words from hearing adults use them, it doesn't mean that they understand how to use it wisely. Adam and Eve may well have had innate knowledge but did they have the understanding with which to use it wisely? That understanding comes from experience - which, to my mind, they patently did not have.

capsium · 03/12/2013 19:30

But Adam and Eve used language. Adam was able to name everything. They were able to talk and understand language. They did not learn the language, so to speak. They trusted God until Satan tempted Eve and Eve in turn Adam.

octopusinasantasack · 03/12/2013 19:32

OK so they could do that with language, but their other knowledge - they don't seem to have had the experience to use that wisely or they wouldn't have been tempted by the devil would they?

Or was it that they didn't know who was good and who was evil? Either way, that comes from lack of experience.

If they implicitly trusted god then why would they have been tempted elsewhere? Either they were happy with what they had or they were not, if they were then they wouldn't have been tempted by what else was on offer?

capsium · 03/12/2013 19:40

octo it's a mystery. However God did not totally abandon them. They had to be put out of the Garden of Eden to protect the way of the a Tree of Life.

capsium · 03/12/2013 19:42

They did have free will though, there were just consequences for making the wrong choice, that is, going against God.

octopusinasantasack · 03/12/2013 19:45

Interesting one, I mean if they and all their descendents were to be kept out, then what was the purpose of the tree of life?
Were humans Plan B?!

capsium · 03/12/2013 19:53

Plan B don't think think so octo. Why would God gone to so much trouble? To eat from The Tree of Life would allow eternal life, we can receive eternal life through Christ.

octopusinasantasack · 03/12/2013 20:00

capsium eternal life, but where?

msmiggins · 03/12/2013 20:16

The Tree of Life is one of the most important mythological symbols used by humankind. It represents interconnection of all life on our planet and our connection with the earth, our evolution from and relationship with other animals and all other life.. It is a sacred symbol used the world over and predates christianity my many thousand of years.
Quite sad really but not surprising that is is portrayed in such a negative light in the bible.

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/12/2013 20:57

capsium Tue 03-Dec-13 13:02:14 So what would you do with the 'nice' Christians Back

I wouldn't do anything with them. They are free agents and must make their own choices. I can only say what I see and let people make up their own mind. I certainly wouldn't kill them all and all their children for disagreeing with me. Even though that would apparently be the moral thing to do.

madhairday you said So one section will describe the passover or Jericho, and another how child sacrifice is repellant to God, and how God is merciful and loving. It is hard to reconcile the God of these passages

It would be since they are incompatible.

Does that mean you are personally sure that god never killed babies and never ordered others to kill them, sure that he did, or are you not sure either way?

capsium · 03/12/2013 21:01

There are two trees mentioned in the Bible. The tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil and The Tree of Life. I don't think the Tree of Life is portrayed as negative, at all. The Tree of Knowledge is not really portrayed badly, just that Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat from it.

I don't know whether you know this ms.miggens, it wasn't clear from your post. Since the account in Genesis concerns the beginning of the universe, how can you say so definitely the Tree of Life predates Christianity (since Christian beliefs include Genesis).

Maybe early Pagan societies shared some of the same knowledge, from an earlier point in history?

capsium · 03/12/2013 21:03

capsium Glad to hear it Back. Christian beliefs do not advocate murder either.

msmiggins · 03/12/2013 21:12

The tree of Knowledge- or enlightenment is just another portrayal of the tree of life.
The bible was written by men a very long time after the beginning of life and a long time after the tree was used as a sacred symbole by many cultures.

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/12/2013 21:13

Christian beliefs do not advocate murder only if killing in god's name is not murder.

Jacob is revered for his willingness to murder his son at god's command. That's how you know he was such a good person.

Elisha was a favorite of god's too. That's why when some kids commented on his bald head god sent 42 bears to rip the kids to pieces.

I have about 1000 other examples. In fact open the OT at random and you will likely find rape and murder at god's behest.

capsium · 03/12/2013 21:15

ms.miggins what ancient texts do you speak of?

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/12/2013 21:16

btw the passages about the tree of knowledge contain god's first lie. He told them they would die if they ate it.

I know you can say "well they would die eventually" but that is hardly honest. Good enough for a payday loan contract perhaps.

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/12/2013 21:19

Capsium there were no christians in the OT. Christ wasn't born then so no such thing. You can't backdate their existence.

capsium · 03/12/2013 21:20

Christian belief includes the Old Testament.

capsium · 03/12/2013 21:21

That is probably why you keep making references to the OT Back...

BackOnlyBriefly · 03/12/2013 21:25

Of course Christian belief includes the Old Testament, but the people there were not christians. So the Tree of Life predates Christianity.

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