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Original poster

Is the Christian God's love unconditional?

902 replies

Woolmark · 20/11/2013 19:57

Ok, some questions which have been playing on my mind, I am genuinely interested.

Surely his love is on the condition that you are a) a Christian and b) follow his rules?

Also, if God loves everyone as much as he does, why can't he save everyone by simply appearing to them? If I could save my children by doing this then I would in an instant, rather than turning up at the end and destroying the ones who weren't Christian.

OP posts:
sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 21:59

God does know all about you and he already knows your path. He may have already spoke many times but he waits for you to answer.

BackOnlyBriefly · 28/11/2013 22:00

I love 'Poe's law' :)

Once in a discussion about Halal meat being the only choice in schools. I asked whether the muslim poster would be happy with the practice of my religion which required that all food be 'shown to the snake' before consumption. I said to be fair to all religions we'd have to have snake handlers in every school and nursery and each plate would have to be held in front of a cobra briefly before being passed to the child.

I didn't use a smily and got a serious response because what I'd said was no more unlikely than any other belief being discussed and no one realised I was joking to illustrate a point.

BackOnlyBriefly · 28/11/2013 22:10

What about creation? The world we live in?

But everyone knows Allah made that. Are you claiming that your god helped him?

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:11

What about creation? What "creation"? The way you've posed this is begging the question. I don't accept there is a "creation". I think there's a universe - and a natural explanation for it.

The world we live in? Natural explanation.

The gift of children? Very natural explanation Wink

The love we can feel and share? Natural explanation.

He may have already spoke many times but he waits for you to answer

Erm....well I am not aware of your god ever having spoken to me. So two things might have happened:

  • He's never spoken to me - in which case he's playing favourites which is not the behaviour of a being made of perfect love (even if it weren't for the genocide & blood sacrifices)

  • He tried & I failed to notice - in which case, God's a big fat failure. How can he attempt something & fail? I thought he was omnipotent - failure not an option. If he actually wanted me to fee/see/hear him, I would have done.

He has not "spoken" to me, Sunshine.

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:11

"feel" that ought to have been.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:16

I am not claiming god helped make the world.
I know he created the world.
You may think he has not spoke to you but again no one can force you to listen.

1919 · 28/11/2013 22:24

Sunshine401- How do you define knowledge? What is your criteria for knowledge? How do you 'know' that there is a creator and that this creator is your God? And how can this tell you anything about the nature of God?

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:27

Sunshine That's rude. I have told you that your god has never spoken to me & to persist by suggesting that I was not listening is arrogant and presumptuous.

Maybe Allah has spoken to you to tell you you're on the wrong team but you just weren't listening Hmm

It's never happened. Sorry about that.

You don't "know" any such thing about the world.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:30

I know because it says so in the bible and the bible is the word of god.
I have a personal relationship with jesus that is how I know.
I have troubles just like everyone else but I know he has control of my life and I am not walking this
life alone.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:32

It is not rude to state what I believe in.

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:37

How do you know the Bible is the word of god? Why does it contain so many mistakes if it's his "word"?

Do you have many relationships with dead people?

He has control of your life? What happened to your "free will"? Why can't you have control of your own life?

I'm not alone either. I'm walking this life with, you know, actual living people I can talk to.

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:39

It's extremely rude to suggest that you know my own experiences better than I do.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:40

The bible does not contain mistakes. Jesus is very much alive and I talk to him daily.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:42

I did say may.

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:44

I have just noticed that the Jill Saward link I posted went to the CAB site (posted on another thread).

If anyone is interested in Jill Saward, she's here.

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 22:48

The Bible contains thousands of mistakes. Too many to miss.

Would you like us to start listing some? Back has pretty extensive biblical knowledge.

So, if Jesus is alive - does that mean he didn't die on the cross, then? Was it all a big confidence trick?

I believe you speak to Jesus. I don't believe you converse with him, though, since biology tells us that such a thing would not be possible.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:52

He died on the cross yes and he rose again. Please explain the mistakes to me. I truly believe there are not any.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 22:55

Biology would not be able to explain the relationship I have with jesus because people on this earth are stuck in time where as jesus and heaven eternity are out of time.

giggle78 · 28/11/2013 23:07

Hello,
The translations that we use do have mistakes and are mistranslated in places which does change the meaning - that is true, . However in terms of a piece of ancient literature the new testament has more copies that concur than any other piece of ancient writing. The Old Testament has been preserved like no other document. They are amazing. There is plenty of evidence outside of them to back their historical accuracy. Including Jesus' death on the cross.

But - without faith in God the bible is very hard to read. Which is where if you are not a christian is the sticking point. It seems like a get out clause that we use.

It is the same with 'conversing' with God. You make the assumption that he would 'speak' back with an audible voice (which is possible but rate) when he speaks to our spirits. He speaks to our hearts. He speaks through circumstance. He speaks through other people. He is speaks through the bible. He speaks in a very real and alive way.

And that is why Christians believe that 'Jesus is alive' because he lives in us and he lives through us and the way (hopefully) we treat other people in such a way as to make their lives better. God is love, in the words of Mumford and Sons. Love it will not betray you, dismay you or enslave you - it will set you free. And that has been my experience.

giggle78 · 28/11/2013 23:07

should say 'rare' not rate.

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 23:08

Who is Joseph's father? Sunshine. Have a look in your Bible and then come back and tell me.

I'm not joking - there are thousands of mistakes in the Bible. Some big, some small. There are loads of reasons for this - mistranslations, mistakes, interpolation, fraud...etc. But to think the Bible is inerrant is totally wrong, I'm afraid.

jesus and heaven eternity are out of time

Really?

What was God doing before he made the world?

HettiePetal · 28/11/2013 23:13

However in terms of a piece of ancient literature the new testament has more copies that concur than any other piece of ancient writing. The Old Testament has been preserved like no other document. They are amazing. There is plenty of evidence outside of them to back their historical accuracy. Including Jesus' death on the cross

Good grief. Who on earth told you all that? It's absolutely not true.

We have around 25,000 fragments/pages of NT manuscripts (nothing original). Not a single one of those fragments is the same as any other!

There are more discrepancies between all the NT copies than there are words in the entire NT.

And there's no historical evidence that Jesus even existed, let alone died on the cross!

Amazing.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 23:14

Jacob is the father of Joseph.

giggle78 · 28/11/2013 23:14

He was hanging out. The members of the trinity are pretty cool. He was creating things. He was being outside of time - like he is. He has to be as he is Spirit. It is because we are physical that we are bound by time.

Time and matter are linked.

sunshine401 · 28/11/2013 23:18

If that is meant to be a mistake about the referral of heli then you are very much mistaken it takes me a while to type please bear with me and I will explain.