Any other atheists around?

[GuybrushThreepwoodMP]

Is there a group for us atheists to discuss ideas of faith, morality, life, the universe and everything (42!)?
Note: I would not want this to become about dissing people of faith and would truly welcome discussion with anyone. This isn't about ridiculing anyone. I would be particularly interested in sharing ideas and discussing the social, anthropological, philosophical, political and psychological aspects of religion from an atheist point of view. Anyone else? I can provide and and .

Errol - your response to me is interesting and leads into one of my big Questions For Christians, i.e.:

'How do you decide which events in your life can be attributed to god's will, and which can't? After all, you go about some aspects of your life perfectly logically and rationally, presumably (?) without having to think about supernatural intervention at all. If you had cheese in the fridge yesterday and you don't today, then you assume that someone has eaten it or nicked it, not that the Invisible Cheese Pixies have spirited it away. If you wake up one morning to find £1000 missing from your bank account, you don't say "Oh, £1000 is missing from my bank account. It must be the will of God. He must have taken it, to feed the poor." No, you get on the phone to your bank and kick up a stink, as anyone would. Where do you draw the line?'

DOI - ah well I think this is not the best thread to ask that question as we're all atheists of one sort or another here!

But - in the dim and distant past when I was a Christian, I think I'd have said that god created the laws of physics, that the natural world was his creation (from Big Bang via evolution etc) - and so it does work 'rationally' with rare exceptions. I'm not going to defend this position as - obviously - I don't hold it any more!

Is it worth breaking this atheist thread into sub threads? If so what would the titles be?

1. Atheists chat corner thread
2. Secular coping mechanisms
3. Skeptics united against "woo woo"
4. Determinism vs Free will
5. Atheist register (one post each, 10 words max)
6. Favourite philosophers and quotes
7. Help, I nearly went to church!

(some of these I just throw into the mix for fun)

"Even if someone found a way to turn their judgement off and on I wouldn't trust them to tell me the time. I mean it would be irrational to use that ability at all."

I forgive people their religious beliefs (I know, it's big of me ) because most have been indoctrinated when very young and never had a chance to engage their rational minds before swallowing the whole story hook, line and sinker.

Silliness like "angel feathers" is just inexcusable, though. Grown women suddenly deciding that everyday bird feathers are personal messages from fairies is a big red flag that they are a few cards short of a full deck imho and I could not trust such people for anything more challenging than telling the time.

Errol

Having two distinct definitions for a word (not unheard of in English) is not at all the same thing as having our own personal ones. You either use the word correctly, or you don't. If there's two meanings, then there's two correct usages. Doesn't give us all licence to impose our own meanings.

I know what the definition of atheist is - I also know what the definition of magic is. If msmiggins is at such pains to deny there's anything supernatural in what she does, it seems pretty obvious not to use a word that specifically means that.

Believing in witchcraft hurts people. Victoria Climbie for one. I am astonished than anyone thinks it's OK to promote the idea that such rubbish is real....just because it doesn't hurt us personally.

And homeopathy is not dressed up placebo effect. Homeopathy largely doesn't work at all - placebo effect or no. Most trials have shown no effect BEYOND placebo this doesn't mean that every person taking a homeopathic "cure" will get better because of the placebo effect. Most people won't show an effect at all.

No, homeopathy is - in a few, few cases - disguised placebo effect. It's marketed as "therapy" & largely bought on that basis.

Witchcraft didn't kill Victoria Climbie, THe christian church did.

CotedAzur

Your comment raised an question of me. To extend the example, how do you trust someone that believes in fairies, I wondered how many scientists are theists.

Googling this question doesn't get a uniform answer but the survey below suggests a third of scientists believe in God.

Does that mean that a great deal of science cannot now be trusted? What if the peer reviews done are done by other theists and they are all in cahoots .... I mean, let's face it, the invention of the iPhone is nothing short of a miracle isn't it?

www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/section-4-scientists-politics-and-religion/

Her aunt did - who believed in witchcraft. Supported by a large group of church goers who also did.

Wonder where they got the idea that it was real then? Irresponsible, irrational people who believe rubbish, that's where.

Hettie you have a very christian view of witchcraft, all that supernatural woo-woo. It's the christian idea of witchcraft which stirs hysterical thought, not witchcraft or paganism per se.
Maybe if you took off those christian coolured glasses you would see a little better.

No, I don't.

I have an intelligent, skeptical view of witchcraft.

It's bullshit.

Sorry about that.

I don't really care what you think- I am simply pointing out the limitations of your understanding.

I don't have a Christian background and still know that "magic" is woo.

Here, I waved my wand and said a few words. Now everything goes my way Err, no it doesn't.

One of the reasons I hate religion is that its adherents "know" they are right and have the ultimate "truth".
Turns out some athiests are just as fixed and unyeilding in their thinking.
Very sad.

Hettie - language evolves, presumably because at some point some individual invents a new term or re-uses an existing one, and it gets adopted. Perhaps it would be easier for us if MrsM could come up with a neologism which would avoid confusion and disassociate her from the totally abhorrent 'witchcraft' (or rather 'christian' crimes resulting from its supposed existence) you've cited, but really it's not too hard to understand what she means.

Well, considerably greater than your critical thinking limits, it would seem.

But if you need to try and make yourself sound fascinating by pretending you're a witch, feel free. I stopped doing that when I was about 8, but each to their own, eh?

Thanks so much, but I prefer to stick to the English language definitions we have now. I'm odd like that.

Magic is infantile rubbish, and I don't indulge childish crap like that.

msmiggins - re "unyielding"

Oh I'd be happy to "yield" but to what? I asked you several times on this thread what exactly the effects of your "magic" is etc and got nada as a reply.

I'm happy to learn and be corrected but it's really hard to do when there is no information coming from the other side.

garlictrivia. well strictly speaking I was saying that 'if someone found a way to turn their judgement off and on I wouldn't trust them to tell me the time'. Imagine having such a switch. Would you ever - under any circumstances - click it?

So the question would be 'is that really what religious people do' because it's what many appear to be claiming to do. As Errol says they they do seem to be able to function this way, but I don't really see how or why they would want to. Why when you are thinking rationally would you decide not to think rationally on a certain list of subjects.

And it certainly is irrational. Religious belief at root means saying "I want that to be true, therefore it is true" which in any other context would indicate a serious problem.

Many religious people will admit eventually that the decision to believe is not a rational one and some will say that it's essential that it be made on faith and not on evidence since evidence would make faith meaningless.

Musswell - I don't think you read my post properly. I specifically addressed the religion issue.

CoteDazur- are you judge and jury over my life? I have no need to prove or outline my actions to you.

"Why when you are thinking rationally would you decide not to think rationally on a certain list of subjects."

Because they have been indoctrinated at an early age, imho. They start believing before their critical mind develops so they never question it. For most people, it becomes such an integral part of their identity that they can't question it later on, either.

msmiggins - re "are you judge and jury over my life?"

Huh? I don't give a monkey's about your life

What is happening here is that you say you make "magic". People are interested because this is, well, unusual to say the least. We ask questions. You don't answer, presumably preferring to look mysterious.

And then you call us "fixed & unyielding" although you have presented zero information or argument so far

"I have no need to prove or outline my actions to you"

No need, but do you at least have the wish? If not, why are you here? After all, conversing about such subjects of interest is the purpose of this thread.

CotedAzur

My bad. Soz

"indoctrinated at an early age"

Yeah, I guess that's a major part of it. Though you'd think once they were adult and someone drew their attention to it they would come to see that.

I can understand people going to church and praying because they always have done, but if their belief is challenged and they try to explain the reasons for their faith I would expect it all to fall apart. It mostly doesn't.

Muswell Hill Dad can I add another sub thread category?
Thread for people who might call themselves atheists if other atheists on different sub threads weren't so argumentative