Any other atheists around?

[GuybrushThreepwoodMP]

Is there a group for us atheists to discuss ideas of faith, morality, life, the universe and everything (42!)?
Note: I would not want this to become about dissing people of faith and would truly welcome discussion with anyone. This isn't about ridiculing anyone. I would be particularly interested in sharing ideas and discussing the social, anthropological, philosophical, political and psychological aspects of religion from an atheist point of view. Anyone else? I can provide and and .

CotedAzur, I hardly think your attitude is conducive to me telling you details of my personal life. So no. I don't have the wish. Others have pmed me and I have been happy to talk, but your hostility prevents me from wishing to give out such details.

BOB - Its probably very hard to understand unless you've been through it - if you start from the position of having faith then it feels real, and its quite hard to get over that subjective view, take a cold look at it and accept that something that was central to your life was delusion. Especially when in doing so you eject yourself from your cosy church community. Also don't forget that if you're in a nice church, you may avoid much effective challenge to your faith but get lots of reinforcement for it.

For me, in the words of Carl Sagan:
“It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” but I can understand why many people brought up with a faith don't reach this realisation.

I prefer to stick to the English language definitions we have now.

Unfortunately for you, we don't have an equivalent of L'Académie française. I hope you're not as old as I am, I've had to unstick lots of definitions from my youth!

Sick, the majority of social scientists who have done important work into the subject (Durkheim, Weber, Marx) have concluded that part of the attraction of organised religion is community- in that respect, religion is similar to supporting a football team. The other highlighted aspect of anthropological study if thee need to explain the unexplainable. Primitive cultures had dreams at night and didn't understand what they were so they assumed there must be a soul which could travel infinitely during sleep. Equally they needed to explain the weather, the growth of their food, the joy of love or childbirth. However this explanation is predictably refuted by the fact that we can now explain all of these things with science- and yet the world is as furiously religious as it ever was. And so we go back to the idea of community.

Errol I completely agree. My nieces ( now in their 30s)were brought up in a very strict religious home. Even sent to a baptist school and only allowed to mix with other kids within that community. Their family and community life was all prayer groups, shared apple pie and a seemingly loving church community.
One of my nieces has now rejected the church and become athiest. It has been the hardest thing she has done. She has been rejected by her family, her community and remains somewhat of an outcast. People who she though were great family friends now cross the road to avoid speaking to her. She feels hurt, betrayed, isolated and very guilty. Although intellectually she has managed to let go of religion she still feels the emotional damage that has been inflicted upon her and finds that aspect very hard to let go of.

GuybrushThreepwoodMP true, but it's not just the posistive aspects that keep people in religion. It's fear too, and power. Abdication of our personal power - as the church encourages- is quite seductive, it infantilizes people and protects them from taking responsibility for their actions. A hefty price to pay imo.

SicknSpan

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I have always been agnostic, mainly in the view that we have to have come from somewhere to be here, but I don't believe in any particular religion fully because 'how can we all be wrong'??

I have thought this way from a very early age, my RS teacher hated me, and called me 'miss agnostic', but I like to think he admired me for at least being a little different.

However, I so admire people who believe in a faith, and would just love to, It must be of great comfort to look to a higher belonging - a reason, a meaning -

I Just can't see it, but I would love something to change my mind,

I'd love to fully understand how/why my faith survived all those years. I think that's why I like discussing religion and beliefs on here. I honestly don't think I was being wilfully blinkered, and I'm not daft. I do know that I wasn't really challenged that I can remember. I only had conversations about god with other believers.

I do chuckle and shake my head when I remember some of the, frankly, nonsensical things we came out with. I remembered something yesterday, a sermon based around the notion that the gospel was too good not to be true. I swear I didn't even flinch when I first heard that but nodded along in agreement. Also all the other stock answers for gods existence like 'well you can't see the wind but you can see the trees move'.

And again the belief that millions upon millions of people around the world have the wrong belief just by dint of being born into a family where the religion wasn't Christianity.

I know that most Christians on MN are careful not to tread on the toes of posters with other religions and wave the whole problem away by saying something about god being fair and knowing our hearts but when I was at church, while we were tolerant and respectful of other faiths we know they had a false religion.

Yet on these boards it seems that the general consensus is that they're all right. There'd have been a right hoohaa if a preacher had said that in the church I grew up in and while it's only been 8 years since my last church attendance as a Christian I think generally for the last few years of my faith preachers didn't mention it so maybe it is a general trend of 'all religions lead to god'? Wouldn't you be thinking 'Why would god knowingly pitch his followers against each other by using different religions? I dunno. Nowt as queer as folk.

Like I say I would love to understand my history, if anything to make sure I have fully learnt from it.

So Headinhands as a total 'floater' in regards to religion, what would you say to me??

Sorry taflee not sure what you mean? What would I say about what?

I think I get you. You mean, as in, you can't decide which, if any of the 2000 or so religions are wrong? If that's what you mean I'd ask how you decided that other stuff is wrong and right? I'm guessing it would come down to having very good reason to think it was wrong or right due to evidence or lack thereof and even more so if it's about something that's making some special claims.

maybe it is a general trend of 'all religions lead to god'?

I think it may be a response to increasing secularisation and the fact that many people like us are now able to freely assert our atheism - a drawing together of 'faith groups' trying to retain their privileges.

Headinhands I actually am at a point where I think I need faith in my life, and I really want to believe in god - I don't know -

Yeah I can see how that would work. Also, it's probably difficult to logically pull a religion apart without 'pissing in your own cornflakes' as it were. I don't remember really spending too much time thinking about the dilemma of how god would judge someone for merely adopting the religion of their parents, we just felt sorry for them not having the real god and left it at that.

Ah right taff, I see. If you were a friend saying this I'd probably be gently asking why you thought you needed a faith. And then work from there.

Head I'm asking you cos your posts seem very similar to my thinking -

Head your posts are totally what I agree with, if you wanted to go into why I needed a faith right now, wouldn't even know where to start - lost some close people, maybe

Taflee - of course you don't have to answer this - but curious why you feel you need faith in your life at this point.

Having had faith before, and now not - I prefer it now, the 'reason and meaning' of my life is what I make of it rather than being a pawn in some higher being's game. (not that I saw it in those terms before though).

I think that's it really. A general thinking that the other faiths (thinking monotheistic ones here) have some but not all of the truth, and therefore are potentially allies against secularism. Makes some very strange bedfellows at times.

My family has a mix of those with no faith, those brought up with a strong faith who still have it, those who have subsequently lost their faith and recent converts. Putting the religion piece on one side I'd say that they were all as rational and intelligent as each other - I'd trust them all to tell me the time. The very religious might also tell me that their god had something to do with the time, or tell me about their prayers or conversations with god as a side line. I find it very odd.

The only bit of church I miss is the singing, but I found other places to do that (still often religious pieces as there are so many, but a secular context). I'm happy to acknowledge how wonderful the world is when I walk the dog :)

sorry, x-posted with you and HinH. Whatever it is you're going through hope you can find some help.

Errol Maybe the total opposite of you lol - i've never had 'faith' so to speak, but see others in getting some comfort from it, and ive lost alot recently, and I need some comfort??

I'm happy to acknowledge how wonderful the world is when I walk the dog

Me too. Haven't found anywhere to sing though.

I joined a choral society Errol. It was great fun for a few years, there is a huge sense of community being part of a large chorus, and making a lot of sound is very cathartic too.

I'm sorry to hear that tafflee, has it been a very recent loss? Have you got much RL support around you at this time? I guess you're hurting and are looking for some emotional comfort, that's utterly understandable.