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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

Christians, please, especially, help

85 replies

MrsFrederickWentworth · 29/06/2013 22:14

My DM, v d, is frail in mind, body and spirit.

She is terrified of death and of extinction.

A simple statement about Jesus or God or love or heaven doesn't do it for her and who can say she is wrong. She has been a practising Christian all her life but it isn't a consolation now.

We have enlisted the professionals but we, her family, need to help too.

Can you help? How can we comfort her?

OP posts:

Annunziata · 30/06/2013 23:12

Oh MrsFrederick I am so, so sorry, how terrible for your lovely mum.

I can only think of

Sending so much love and prayers x

yamsareyammy · 30/06/2013 23:15

MrsFrederickWentworth. As fas as I know, her spirit will leave her body when she dies, and probably right away goes to Heaven.
Or else goes to Heaven when the graves open.

Either way, God is with her throughout it all.
It says somewhere in the bible that nothing seperates us from the love of God.
So she wont be seperated from God at any point.

Gingerandcocoa · 30/06/2013 23:23

I have been thinking about you and your DM today and throughout church. What's really comforting to think about, and your DM may find it so, is that we have reason to believe that our soul will live on with God, and that's because Jesus is no longer dead. He is alive and in the same way he has beaten death, so will we!
I think that reading to her those Scriptures, maybe read in "the Message" the texts about Jesus resurrection, might help?

Or here there are a few good verses to read to her:
www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/bible-verses-about-death/

Gingerandcocoa · 30/06/2013 23:25

1 Corinthians 15:54-57 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: ?Death is swallowed up in victory.? ?O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?? The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

springytats · 30/06/2013 23:25

HIs will is not fear. It's the opposite of what he is. Pray your head off (insist?) that she gets the peace she craves - he says he is the God of the broken-hearted and imprisoned (and this is a prison for her, your poor mum ) - he says he came to set the captive free (Isaiah 63). Somebody, somewhere has said something and she's taken it in, lock, stock. This is precisely what caused my fear - actually, terror: something was said and, as a child, I took it literally and was absolutely terrified. I can't even express the terror of it.

I do think that old people revert in some ways to being childlike - perhaps, as if speaking to a child, could you tell her she is safe? I don't know what your relationship is like with her, but could you try soothing her, telling her quietly he is a good and a kind God and that he loves her dearly and tenderly. Yes, read Psalm 23 to her - in fact, all the psalms are perfect for when you're going through it ime.

This is a dark night for her, bless her. I'm praying with you, as I'm sure we all are on this thread.

Littleballofhate · 30/06/2013 23:27

Psalm 121 ..I will lift mine eyes unto to hills, from whence cometh my help. My help cometh from the Lord, whom made Heaven and Earth.
This has helped calm me and strengthen me in times of fear..
I feel great sympathy for your poor mum..I will pray for her..

cornflakegirl · 30/06/2013 23:31

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39

I read this at my grandfather's funeral, and I find it really powerful.

Also Psalm 121 - all about how God is always watching over us.

The psalms in general can be really useful at hard times, as in lots of them the writer has really raw and vulnerable emotions, which can encourage us to be honest with God about how we're feeling.

springytats · 30/06/2013 23:32

Does she like classical music? I'd recommend Handel's version of ?Death is swallowed up in victory.? ?O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?? (the Messiah).

In fact, there is endless 'classical' music that is spiritually uplifting, strengthening, releasing. Bach is a winner for me, but when I was going through a ferociously tough time, classical music was all I could bear to hear or take in.

yamsareyammy · 30/06/2013 23:36

Thats the bit, cornflake girl. I was going to find it tomorrow.
We had a vicar who was forever quoting that bit.
The older I get, the more I realise how lovely, and important, that bit is.

springytats · 30/06/2013 23:36

Would it help her to have a visit from her vicar? She won't be the only one who is terrified at the end - I'm sure he will have considerable experience of comforting the dying. A vicar has a particular authority that she may respond to.

Littleballofhate · 30/06/2013 23:41

The other Psalm that resonates with me is 30:5..Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. I always feel safe and comforted after repeating those words.

Original poster

MrsFrederickWentworth · 30/06/2013 23:42

Cornflake, yes, that does it for me too, but she is in such despair that my hope at the moment is that she can learn first to accept herself, being love worthy as Julian of Norwich said, and then go through her vale of misery but use it as a well.

Anything about lifting up eyes, seeing God, makes her cry more as she is losing her sight v fast.

I think the safety theme might be a really good one. Makest me dwell in safety.

Thank you for prayers for her, she needs holding up at the moment.

OP posts:

MrsWildermac · 30/06/2013 23:46

Fear is a lack of assurance...a pondering the 'what if's'...she needs to get back to basics and 'Cast all her care upon Him, for He careth for us'. (1 Peter 5:7). Peace is the gift of God, and by taking all her cares to Him in prayer, casting her needs unreservedly at His feet and trusting Him, He will bless her with peace - he has promised 'I will never leave thee nor forsake thee' Hebrews 13:5. John 14 is a chapter with lots of comfort in it.

It's often easy for a Christian to feel guilty about being scared of death, but the devil likes to poke us where it hurts most..but God is bigger than Satan and His love can cast out fear.

Does she know the hymn 'what a friend we have in Jesus'? I'm on my phone or else I'd link to it...but it is lovely.

I'll go to sleep praying for her tonight.

yamsareyammy · 30/06/2013 23:48

She doesnt need to judge herself, it is Jesus that is going to do that.
Though not sure if that would make her feel better or worse tbh.

Original poster

MrsFrederickWentworth · 30/06/2013 23:49

Got the vicar, curate and a lay preacher coming in, truly the professionals.

But she needs her family too to say the right things.
She obviously feels completely undeserving and that she should have achieved stuff.

I did a mixture of the " but you did in so many ways" with the " you don't need to achieve anything, and any way st therese was a boring little bourgeoise". But someone, somewhere, has filled her with gloom of the damned or the nihilist and she can't face it. She had a mixture of an anglican high church and church of Scotland upbringing.

OP posts:

MrsWildermac · 30/06/2013 23:50

Another verse is the last verse of Psalm 4, one of my favourites...'I will both lay me down in peace, and quiet sleep will take, because thou only me to dwell, in safety Lord dost make'.

yamsareyammy · 30/06/2013 23:53

It may be, op, that she is now too frail to work things out.
And so needs to ignore her horrible thoughts if she can.
I think there comes a point, and actually certain times in our life when we are ill, physically or mentally, that we have to just try and rely totally on God. And leave things up to Him.

Original poster

MrsFrederickWentworth · 30/06/2013 23:53

Yes, abide with me and what a friend we have on Jesus, and all your anxiety, all your care , take to the mercy seat, , and Wesley's lovely Lead me Lord, she knows all those.

But they are not getting through.

It is a night of doubt and sorrow.

I too pray for all going through this. And for you, the lovely responders to this thread.

OP posts:

MrsWildermac · 30/06/2013 23:55

I wonder if it's the confusion of the high church/CofS background which is causing her the problem...both come from different points of view...anglicanism puts far more emphasis on what one can achieve and traditionally at least the CofS puts the emphasis not on what man can do to save himself but on what Christ has done to save his people. At the end of the day, whatshe has or hasn't done is irrelevant so long as she is trusting in Christ alone. Yes, we can all look back at our lives with regrets, but if we are trusting in Christ to take away our sins through His death on the cross, then what we have or haven't done doesn't matter as we are saved by His grace.

Littleballofhate · 30/06/2013 23:56

My heart goes to your mother. I am praying for her to find peace, hope and strength through the Lord.

MrsWildermac · 30/06/2013 23:57

Sorry...that should have read what one can achieve for oneself...in a working out your own salvation way.

Sorry if I'm rambling!

springytats · 30/06/2013 23:57

I agree that reasoning with her won't cut it - she is probably beyond reasoning, caught in a vice.

Try statements. Kindly, of course. If she counters everything with "But...", don't go there.

(sorry to be prescriptive!)

dappledawn · 30/06/2013 23:58

I so feel for you, OP - having lost my own dear Mum last year, I can appreciate how the prospect of the loss of life and loved ones must feel desperately hard (in proportion to the depth of the love you share); especially as your DM is so fearful of extinction.

Someone pointed out this text to me when I was grieving after my DM's death and wondering how I could be sure that I would see her again one day; I found it helpful. It might help your DM in the sense that it gives her a promise that, through your own faith, she doesn't need to worry at all, as her own eternal security is also thereby guaranteed regardless of any doubts she may personally have, as she is 'of your household'.

Acts 16: 29-31 - Paul and Silas are in prison in Philippi, and there is an earthquake while they are singing and praising God; their chains fall off and the prison doors fly open. The jailer asks Paul and Silas 'What must I do to be saved?' and they tell him, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved - you and your household'.

Hope this might help. I will pray for her, and you, to find peace.

springytats · 01/07/2013 00:09

She is terrified of being a small bit of matter whirling round in a black void

Yes, that's it. I wonder if there's a name for it, that fear. Morbid fear?

In my case, a profound feeling of being unconnected, somehow (lost? cosmically 'lost')) was at the root of the terror. Which had its roots in my family life, and was compounded by pronouncements of hell/nothingness. I suppose it all boils down to not feeling cherished, or valuable. Or loved, basically. It is a primal fear, I think.

I don't know if it's a comfort to you, but she's right at the very door - God's door, that is - with all this. Agony to stand by and watch someone so dear (and fragile) suffering such torture, though. His hand is not too short to save.

Homebird8 · 01/07/2013 01:01

Fear not, for I have redeemed you. I have called you by your name. You are mine. When you pass thorough the waters I'll be with you. You will never slip beneath the waves. Do not be afraid.

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