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Philosophy/religion

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Christian-Muslim-Jewish friendship thread

228 replies

niminypiminy · 10/06/2013 11:17

I've had a talk with Crescentmoon about starting a thread where Christians and Muslims can hold out our hands in friendship to one another. I feel like we have so much to offer one another, and I certainly would love to learn more about Islam, and to understand the ways in which my Muslim sisters live out their faith. Would anybody else like to join?

I'm niminypiminy, and I'm a member of the Church of England, and work, and have two children. I realise that I'd don't even know if there is an equivalent in Islam for the different denominations (aside from Sunni and Shia, which I'm not at all confident I correctly understand the difference between). I'm going to be offline for a couple of days, so can't get back to reply, but if anybody would like to use this thread to come together as Christians trying to live out our faith, and to prayerfully and open-heartedly welcome and understand each other... Smile

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crescentmoon · 13/08/2013 18:52

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twistyfeet · 13/08/2013 19:34

she did forget the synchronised shuckle which is kinda funny to watch. you forget your own prayer in astonishment.
Dont read if easily offended. I'm jewish and I have a sense of humour.
here

crescentmoon · 13/08/2013 20:23

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twistyfeet · 13/08/2013 20:58

Most religious jews would have a copy of the Torah in the house - its known as the Old Testament in English. You know, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The Bible in other words. I've got copies in English with commentary and copies in hebrew. In the Synagogue it would be in scroll form and in hebrew and each week unrolled to the correct bit and either read or chanted in hebrew depending on the skill of your Rabbi or whoever is called up to read it.
I guess it was divided into 52 handy portions so it would be read over a year, a bit like the Quran gets divided into 30 portions to be read over Ramadan? On Shabbat services its read during the service along with sung prayers, the scroll is paraded with sung prayers (yeah, its heavy) and often there's a sermon or discussion and some more singing. Orthodox jews have weekday prayer services too but I've never been to one. Fridays nights there candle lighting for Shabbat and a blessing over wine and bread and a short service (the Torah scroll doesnt come out for that, only on the saturday)

Personally I think God judges you over your whole life, not cracks open a metaphorical book once a year but I guess its good to think about how you've behaved over the past year. As Teshuvah is about your behaviour towards other people it really is a useful concept. We believe sin and bad behaviour damages your own soul, not God. Nothing can damage God so sin against yourself and other people and asking forgiveness from others is the important thing and asking God's help in making things right (cos its not easy is it!) is what teshuvah is all about.

As for shuckling, I dont. I have enough trouble focusing on the hebrew in the prayer book and reading it and any swaying would making me fall over. The main prayer, the Amidah, is done standing up with some steps and some bows. I'm the most unco-ordinated person in the world. If you added in a shuckle I'd fall over Grin

ZutAlorsDidier · 14/08/2013 21:42

Excuse me, crescent moon and others, for asking a silly question, but: do muslims have a Sabbath?

stressedHEmum · 15/08/2013 10:44

twisty, is the rest of the Tanakh read in the synagogue as well, or just the Pentateuch?

To my knowledge, Christians don't routinely sway while praying, certainly not in my branch - but then we don't have ritual prayers at all, so maybe in other denominations it's different. My lot would struggle to clap their hands while singing hymns, tbh. I think that I would probably fall off the pew if I had to sway with my eyes shutGrin

Sorry, I still haven't replied to the questions about materialism in Christianity. I'm having a hard time adjusting to these new meds and they're making me very dizzy and confused. I'll try my best in a couple of days when, hopefully, I'll feel a bit more coherent.

twistyfeet · 15/08/2013 12:35

Hi Stressed. We have whats called a Haftarah reading taken from the rest of the Torah (prophets/psalms etc) after the main Torah portion but most people read the rest themselves and the prayers are taken from Torah and sung.

Know what you mean about meds. I started a new one at the beginning of the year for migraine and its destroyed my memory. So badly I couldnt recall my hebrew name when called by it at the synagogue and sat there blinking when i heard it and thought why doesnt X get up. Until I realised that was me Blush
Mind you, I did hear a tale about the new Chief Rabbi (scuse any unintentional offence). When he lifted the Torah scroll in a service once, he said 'Jesus, thats heavy'. There was a moment of stunned silence before the Irish Rabbi shot back 'For Christs's sake dont drop it' Grin
Oops

stressedHEmum · 15/08/2013 14:32

twisty, that's very funny. I have a picture in my head now!

How are you now? Hope your migraine meds are working. I have ME and fibromyalgia, so the specialist has introduced yet another drug to take. it'll just take a few days to adapt, I hope.

twistyfeet · 15/08/2013 18:15

They seem to be (its topamax, also know as stupidomax) but have played havoc with my memory and concentration. And my ability to stop blurting out my inappropritae sense of humour Grin
I've been asked to give a small speech on Yom Kippur as a charity I put forward has been chosen as our charity of the year. Given my inability to control my gob I might just gaffer tape it up and use flashcards. Luckily the majority of the synagogue has a sense of humour and we do joke a lot but Yom Kippur is the Holiest Day ever. I'll probably turn bright red and fall over.

crescentmoon · 17/08/2013 17:41

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stressedHEmum · 25/08/2013 13:17

SO, I shall try a very short answer to the question about materialism in Christianity. Please forgive the inevitable errors of spelling and grammar.

There is quite a clear picture of materialism in the New Testament and what our attitude should be. Basically, as a Christian adult, you have a responsibility to provide for yourself and your family, but that has to be balanced against the other teachings. We are to be content with food and clothing (and shelter), and in whatever circumstances that we find ourselves. We are not to seek after wealth but after the Kingdom and pleasing God. We should trust God to provide what we really, really need because he knows what that is before we do.

The attitude of Christianity towards wealth etc. is that we should focus on covering our basic needs not our wants, so that as long as we have what we really NEED, then we should not look for more, because this distracts us fro what is truly important - seeking God and building up treasure in heaven.

18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful Mark4: 18-19, from the parable of the sower.

*13 Someone in the crowd said to him, ?Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.?

14 Jesus replied, ?Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?? 15 Then he said to them, ?Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.?

16 And he told them this parable: ?The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ?What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.?

18 ?Then he said, ?This is what I?ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I?ll say to myself, ?You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.??

20 ?But God said to him, ?You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself??

21 ?This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.?* Luke 12: 13-21 the parable of the rich fool

*22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: ?Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life[b]? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?

27 ?Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you?you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

32 ?Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.* Luke 12: 22 -24

*5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said,

?Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.?[a]
6 So we say with confidence,

?The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid.
What can mere mortals do to me?* Hebrews 13: 5-6

There is also a positive burden laid on Christians to redistribute their wealth and care for the poor. In the early church, all the believers put all their assets together for the benefit of everyone, so that everyone had sufficient food, clothing etc. There is a very real and vitally important burden put onto Christians to care for the poor. So we should always try to make sure that when we benefit on any way or gain in material wealth that it should not be at the expense of the poor.

Another important aspect of Christian attitude to money is that we believe that God is far more interested in the condition of our heart and what goes on inside us than He is in what we have. The story of the widow's mite shows us that a small gift, given willingly and sacrificially, is worth far more the God than a huge gift which costs the giver nothing.

There are literally dozens and dozens of quotes that I could give about money and possessions in the NT, but it would take all day. I think that Jesus story of the rich young man kind of sums it all up.
*6 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, ?Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life??

17 ?Why do you ask me about what is good?? Jesus replied. ?There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.?

18 ?Which ones?? he enquired.

Jesus replied, ??You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honour your father and mother,?[a] and ?love your neighbour as yourself.?[b]?

20 ?All these I have kept,? the young man said. ?What do I still lack??

21 Jesus answered, ?If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.?

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.* Matthew19:16-22

crescentmoon · 14/09/2013 20:40

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niminypiminy · 29/06/2014 12:46

Been meaning to restart this thread for a while, and found it today to say:

Ramadan Mubarak to all MN Muslims

Now more than ever let us reach out to each other in peace and friendship.

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crescentmoon · 29/06/2014 12:59

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Letsgoforawalk · 29/06/2014 22:22

Oh I like this thread!
peace to you all. To any Muslim friends I hope you have all the help you need during Ramadan at what must be quite a difficult time of year to be fasting in the daylight hours.
Could only realistically describe myself as an atheist but it's a wide world and we all need to get along so I'd love to know more about people's beliefs.

niminypiminy · 29/06/2014 22:30

All are welcome here, the only thing to remember this is not a debate thread, but a place for friendship and reaching out to understand each other.

I am very excited, I have just bought a copy of the Quran (in English translation), waiting for it to arrive. If I were recommending someone who'd never read the Bible before where to start, I'd say the Gospel of Mark. Is there a good place for me to start with my reading?

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DioneTheDiabolist · 01/07/2014 01:57

Have just spotted this and think it's a wonderful idea. I don't have time to read it now, so just marking my place for tomorrow.

I am Dione, I used to be an atheist but I'm not one now. I am a kind of Catholic. I have a gorgeous DS(7) who has recently received an SEN diagnosis. I have been separated from his dad for 6 years. Although I had been a believer for a number of years, it was only once I'd left my Ex that I started going to mass again (my family are Catholic). I have an atheist DP.

crescentmoon · 01/07/2014 02:34

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niminypiminy · 01/07/2014 09:21

It's the OUP World's Classics edition, which gets very good reviews on Amazon -- I think it has notes and commentary too which I'm sure I'll need! Looking forward to getting my copy and beginning. Is it ok if I post questions or reflections that occur to me as I go along? I would really appreciate your wisdom and guidance.

The gospel of Mark is much the shortest of the four gospels, and most people think it was the first one to be written, and that Matthew and Luke drew on Mark for much of their material.

Have a good day today.

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madhairday · 01/07/2014 09:28

Lovely to see this thread revived again, thanks niminy!

Blessings to everyone here.

I would love to know more about Ramadan, crescent and others - can you give me an outline of how you observe it, what is behind it etc? I know some stuff but would like to build up what I know. Thanks :)

BlessedAssurance · 01/07/2014 18:41

What a lovely thread niminy. I would like to join too.

Hello everyone :-) i am a mother to two adorable children, DD-4 and Ds-3 months. I was born and raised in Catholic home but left the church more than 10yrs ago to become what some may call pentecostal. Dh is atheist.

Interesting hearing from different faiths and looking forward to hearing more especially about Judaism. I have many Muslim friends so know a bit about Islam but would like to learn more.
Waves to fellow pals Mhd and niminy

cheapskatemum · 01/07/2014 21:33

Hi all! I missed this thread a year ago, but am finding it very interesting now. I'm a Christian Baptist, DH is a lapsed Catholic. We have 4 DSs aged 22,20,19 and 16. Apart from me, DS2 is the only one who attends church regularly and he has LD + ASD. I have Jewish and Muslim friends (also Hindu, Sikh and Rastafarian ones) from when we lived in London. to Blessed, MHD, Niminy, TGHOMR, Tuo whom I know from Bible reading and prayer threads. Sorry if I've missed anyone. I look forward to getting to know the rest of you. Predestination and free will a topic of much interest to me. I've come to it from the angle of how prayer, and intercessory prayer can affect predestination. I would also add that, for a Christian, good works are a way of showing love for Christ, in that you want to be as much like him as possible.

Tuo · 01/07/2014 23:09

So pleased to see this thread revived. Smile

Ramadan mubarak (belatedly) to crescentmoon and the other muslim posters on this thread. Was thinking of my muslim friends today - about how hard the fast must be at this time of year, when it's barely dark at all.

crescentmoon · 04/07/2014 09:58

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cheapskatemum · 04/07/2014 14:36

Hi crescentmoon, thanks, I'm always happy to discuss scripture! I always used to find Psalms a bit confusing - one minute full of the reverence you allude to, the next ranting at God and accusing him of desertion etc! A book called "The Bible Jesus Knew" helped me, I'm sorry I can't remember the author. Niminy and TGHoMR, to mention but two, would also be very helpful. I'm mindful of how very busy they are though and wouldn't want to overload them even more. How's Ramadan going? I think I read on this thread how the fasting came from Lent. Baptists don't generally go a bundle on Lent, but I grew up in a C of E tradition and eat pancakes on Shrove Tuesday and give something up from thence till Easter Sunday.

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