Sorry I didn't get back yesterday, crescent, I had really bad day. Bit better today, so I shall attempt to give my take on predestination.
it's something which has caused untold strife in the Christian faith for centuries and is still really divisive. There are several different strands of though on how predestination works. I am probably a different branch of Christianity from most folk on here, but the statement of faith in my brand is that "we can choose God because He first chose us". There, is , however a lot of interpretation of that.
My church has Calvinist roots and their take on determinism v. freewill was that there was really no such thing as free will and that God controlled and predetermined every single last thing that ever happened. They also had the evil doctrine of double predestination - the belief that God decides before people are even born whether they will go to heaven or hell and that there is nothing that they can do to change that.
It all comes, really, from Augustine and his struggles with the idea of Grace and that it all seems so fickle.
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. (Romans 8:29?30)
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus?who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ?. (1 Peter 1:1?2,)
These verses and others in the NT, especially the letters, talk about predestination and lots of people take that to mean that God controls everything and that He picks us to be his people (therefore condemning everyone else
) But, my personal belief is that you have to take verses like that in conjunction with verses like
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3?4)
The Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
God chooses us because He knows which of us will choose him, iyswim, he doesn't pick us at random. He wants everyone to come to knowledge of Him and to faith but there is no compulsion. We have to choose to believe.
Away from the hideous belief in double predestination, I don't believe that God controls our every move and I, personally, don't think that there is any grounds for that belief in Christianity. I think that God is outside time and we are inside time - so He can see everything that ever happens and knows all our possible choices and outcomes but it is still up to us to make those choices. Believing completely in Determinism would mean that I had to believe that God chose millions of children to be born just to die of hunger and disease, that He chose people to suffer from illness and disability, that he chose me and millions of others to sexual abuse and violence.....
Verses like -
For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future Jer29:11
show us that God's plans for us are good and beneficial, not dire and horrendous. What kind of God would determine the kind of life for His children that some people have. (The root of Augustine's problem, really). Bad things happen, often to good people. That doesn't mean, for me, that God has somehow chosen for that person to suffer. Most of the bad things are a consequence of millennia of bad choices by people throughout the ages.
No, I believe that "God's plan" for us is that we come to know Him and have faith in Him, thereby making our lives better and more bearable in the short term and giving us the confidence in His salvation in the long term. Our decisions are our own as are the consequences of those decisions, nor are the circumstances of our lives dictated by God. However, I realise that this is just my opinion and probably not all that valid theologically.
I hope that makes some kind of sense, my brain is still not functioning to clearly.
I didn't know that neither Judaism or Islam have a concept of original sin. How do you view the Fall of Adam? We believe, in the main, that Adam and Eve were created perfect but with free will. They exercised their free will and choose to disobey God, thereby bringing sin into the world and causing the world to lose it's perfection and people to lose the eternal life that they had in Adam - the wages of sin is death.
crescent - the thing with works is that without them faith is pretty empty. We gain salvation Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Solo Christo - by faith alone, by grace alone, through Christ alone. There is nothing we can do to earn God's grace or salvation but by doing good works motivated by our faith, we are showing that we have said faith and we are trying to spread God's love. Nothing we can do can earn us God's love because we have that anyway (God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son...) but we can show God's love to others. I think that that's a fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. I also think that it ties in quite well with the predestination thing.
What's the point in doing good works if God has already decided that your going to Heaven, or worse, hell - nothing you could do would make any difference.
I would like to know what the Jewish take on works is, as well. It's embarassing how ignorant I am about other people's faith. Comes from living in the dark heart of proddy land.