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Philosophy/religion

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Does God withhold blessings from Christians who are living in disobedience?

479 replies

Jewcy · 03/05/2013 18:00

I am a Christian but my husband is not. I am desperate to be a better person in God's eyes but can not escape the instruction in 2 Corinth ch 6 re being unequally yoked to non-believers. I am nearly 42 and desperately trying to start a family (I mc'd last year). We are due to fly to the Czech Republic in June for donor egg IVF but I can't help worrying that God will not bless me with a child whilst I continue to willfully live a disobedient life. I entered into a relationship with my husband knowing that it is not God's will for me to be with a non-Christian. Am I to be forever outside of God's will? My prayer life has become almost non-existent as I don't feel I can appeal to the Lord for his blessings re a baby and yet it is all I can think about.

I guess the real problem here is that my obsession with starting a family has superceded my devotion and surrender to God's will. Please help me Sad

OP posts:
Spero · 07/05/2013 15:58

Can't we all just love one another and be kind?

Jewcy · 07/05/2013 15:58

Thinking of you today, Spero.

OP posts:
Spero · 07/05/2013 15:59

Thank you.

Jewcy · 07/05/2013 16:00

Nicholas, I apologise for thinking you are a feminist. I read the thread you started re your 17 year-old daughter's facebook status where she calls her pals 'cunts' and your response to the negative comments led me to believe you are a feminist.

HTH

OP posts:
Jewcy · 07/05/2013 16:03

I don't think I'm being unkind, Spero. The disingenuity of certain posters - and the underlying aggression - is quite astonishing. I know I have retaliated in a less than Christian manner at times, but at least I'm honest.

OP posts:
Spero · 07/05/2013 16:07

You can disagree without being rude. To complain about others aggression and then to be aggressive yourself detracts from the points you want to make.

Come join me on the moral high ground! It's nice up here.

Ilikethebreeze · 07/05/2013 16:08

Jewcy. Rudeness does mean unkindness.

Ilikethebreeze · 07/05/2013 16:09

Actually I think I will leave it to you Spero. You are making better posts than me!

Have you had treatment today?

daftdame · 07/05/2013 16:11

Here is another song...especially for when us Christians get a bit too much 'hair shirt' Grin

Makes me realise how the small things count...Smile

Spero · 07/05/2013 16:13

I am sitting in the comfort of my own home while various horrible things are dripping into me so mumsnet is great distraction.

daftdame · 07/05/2013 16:20

It certainly is Spero...at least I can help provide that even if my other post haven't ...ahem...quite hit the mark for you.

Hope all goes well for you anyway.

Ilikethebreeze · 07/05/2013 16:47

That link made me laugh out loud daftdame. I couldnt catch many of the words in my computer.
But I have been handwashing dishes since friday, because my dishwasher broke, and the man cannot come to fix it until Thursday. So dishes are very much on my mind.

NicholasTeakozy · 07/05/2013 16:53

Her exact words were "...fuck all you patriarchal cunts" and it was directed at male friends of hers who were displaying double standards in how men and women are allowed to dress and act. I happen to agree with her, and no, I don't mind her swearing at all.

Spero, I hope your treatment goes well, and yes, Zombie is a wonder.

Spero · 07/05/2013 16:54

Thanks for that link, I just watched Common People and was reminded what a superb song that is.

Daftdame, you haven't offended me - it just hits a raw nerve when the religious suggest doubt that anyone without a faith can live a good life. I feel that is quite dismissive of humanity and what we are capable of, it suggests that without the fear of hell and punishment we would all be out there raping and pillaging. I think most people want to be good and kind. I don't need the Bible to inform me about what goodness and kindness consist of.

I agree with Marcus Aurelius - live a good life because if there is a god, that will please him. If he isn't pleased, he isn't much of a god and isn't worth worshipping. And if there is no god, well at least you have lived a good life and people will have nice memories of you.

i think that is a much more honest approach than Pascal's wager.

daftdame · 07/05/2013 17:05

Spero I see what you are saying but for me my faith helps me overcome my fear.

Without it I would just be constantly tying myself in knots.

Whilst I find Science fascinating, I also find a lot of it terrifying (especially bad / incomplete Science) and I find comfort with my faith. That's me...

Jewcy · 07/05/2013 17:06

...but you are a feminist, aren't you, Nick?

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TunipTheVegedude · 07/05/2013 17:09

OP, I've read the whole thread.
I'm sorry you're going through this very difficult time.

The post that really jumped out at me was where you said the churches near you are no use because they don't seem to have a minister who actually loves God.

I think what will really help you -and I'm sorry that this will probably come across as patronising, it's really not meant to - is not so much about making yourself bite back rudeness or snappiness, though obviously it's useful to be able to do that, but to try and get into the habit of looking for the good in people and responding to them on that basis.

There's nothing wrong with trying to find the church that best suits you, but by writing off certain churches as being spiritually no use at all even when they're your only option you're potentially cutting yourself off from a lot of support and learning. With respect, you have no idea if a particular minister loves God, even if they're not expressing it in the way you've come to expect from the churches that have helped you. You seem like one of these self-critical people who finds yourself habitually responding to other people in the critical way you respond to yourself.

I am sure I have a very different conception of God from you (more Quaker than evangelical) but I don't believe in God as an entity that withholds blessings for disobedience. I would take that concept more to mean that someone who keeps apart from God (through what you might call disobedience) is shutting himself off from all kinds of blessings. There is no connection between your ability to conceive and your marriage to a non-believer but what you can do is be open to the good in both these situations and the way you approach them.

Best wishes x

madhairday · 07/05/2013 17:41

Just read the whole thread (been off MN for a few days) and nothing much to add, but wanted to say that I'm thinking of you, Spero. I can't imagine how chemo feels but used to horrible hospital treatment and it can be the pits. I find MN a real tonic too :)

Hello OP. :) I wish you all the best in your treatment. I'm thinking on your original question. I'm not sure the God I know and worship witholds blessings, but it does seem that blessings are released with obedience (in a good way) - what you are doing now is not disobedience, surely - you have entered into commitment with someone you love, and that is something God blesses, I think. I'm interested to read of all you have come through, but wonder if it has meant that you beat yourself up and possibly overthink things. Disobedience would be along the lines of not loving God and not loving our neighbour as ourselves. I hope you can come to some peace soon.

Spero - yes the OT is incredibly difficult. I think the bible as a whole is relevant but not binding (I am not a literalist) - it is inspired by God. The OT is made up of a number of genres - history, poetry, prophecy, wisdom. You know all this! I'm sorry the Alpha course didn't answer your questions with any integrity. I can imagine their fluffing around about context was an attempt to explain that we do need to study both etymology and context in order to understand the text. The passages about killing homosexuals for example were referring to the practise of men abusing temple slaves - there was no concept of a loving homosexual relationship. The laws were there to protect the vulnerable. The OT has more passages where God is shown as compassionate and merciful than as vengeful and nasty. His compassion is particularly for the poor, widows and orphans and his anger is directed against those who abuse such, who sacrifice to him then turn around and live a life of greed and selfishness.

Doesn't make the hard parts easier, but it needs to be seen in balance.

daftdame · 07/05/2013 18:29

madhairday now just adding this for the literalists, I am one. But then my interpretism of literalism may not be the same...History is literal but the lessons learnt from it aren't.

When you add the supernatural into the mix with symbolism working simultaneously with what we are able to interpret literally. Think of Jesus as "...author and finisher of our faith", think of spiritual understanding. Added to this once you understand the Greek and Hebrew, or even the Kabbalah, meaning seems to be exploding from every angle. It really is fascinating to me.

I'm not sure I'm actually know what 'literal' means anymore...

daftdame · 07/05/2013 18:31

That should be I know ^. (oh, the irony!)

daftdame · 07/05/2013 18:47

I am just thankful the Bible offers absolute truth to me, (even if I cannot always comprehend it!).

I am one to get far to caught up in Post Modernism for anyone's liking. I expect I could become totally insufferable without it....

When presented with Science I always get far to caught up in paradoxes and anomalies.

What I really like about the Christian faith is that through Christ we can escape entropy, if I'm not mistaken the 1st law of thermodynamics. Epigenetics is exciting to me because it may be explained by the redemption through Christ.

Well there you go that's my take...

Jewcy · 07/05/2013 19:14

daftdame, I wish I understood what you were saying. I am intelligent, but clearly out of my depth here. I am a Christian, but young in the faith. I have read the bible in its entirety but have not studied it nearly enough. I also cannot understand the mysteries (and savagery) of the OT, but mahairday's wonderful post says exactly what I know to be true in my heart.

Tunip, your post, too, I was grateful for. I understand why you think, from my past, that I may be treating others with the criticism I dole out to myself. It is true I am hard on myself and carry the burden of having huge expectations of myself now I am a Christian. However, the hardest battle for me is not attacking those who who I feel are out to attack me or my faith. I do not relish these tirelessly militant atheists coming on here with their attempts to derail my faith and batter me with their vision of what and who I am as a Christian. They have nothing in the way of true concern for me in the context of my post and yet still they come...

So, we've already established I am far from being the ideal Christian (I know, I know, there's no such thing) and, as such, I feel free to say that the devilry of the atheists pisses me right off Grin

I have to say, moreover, that, in my past as a prostitute I can only imagine the criticism that would have been levelled at me from the likes of Nick, the feminist. It does seem that neither my life choices before my salvation through Christ, nor the decisions I struggle with since are going to be anything but reprehensible to the likes of him and his ilk.

OP posts:
Jewcy · 07/05/2013 19:21

...which is interesting in itself.

OP posts:
daftdame · 07/05/2013 19:24

Jewcy don't worry I don't understand the things I ponder on half the time... I could easily be accused of other thinking (over thinking even -another Freudian slip?).

But it's why I like the discipline of faith - to reign me in a lot of the time Grin.

daftdame · 07/05/2013 19:44

Jewcy sounds like you've come through a lot...I for one admire you for coming this far. I wouldn't expect you to be at all perfect. Its inevitable you have some things to work through, as we all have.

I hope you can find some good spiritual guidance - good church, clear revelation, whatever form is best for you.