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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

I have the 'woo' gene, do you?

216 replies

IndigoBarbie · 30/03/2013 19:56

:) A nicely coined phrase from another thread. I have it, I do believe [bugrin]

OP posts:
CoteDAzur · 07/04/2013 21:25

I'm not saying Twosugar's dream isn't "valid" (funny term).

What I am saying is that it is not quite rational for an adult to believe that one set of characters in her dreams (the dead ones) are real people talking to her, and the rest (living ones) are just... well... a dream.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2013 21:36

Cote, she's already said that she's had other 'normal' dreams about her Dad but that certain ones felt different. Why do u think you're in a position to dismiss that considering that you haven't experienced it?

CoteDAzur · 07/04/2013 21:46

It is not hard to dismiss, considering that dead people don't come and talk to us in our dreams Hmm

Oh wait. You mean Twosugars is special Smile That must be how she talks to her dead dad in her dreams although nobody else can. That must also be why we are not allowed to dismiss her "experience" as a normal dream boosted by an active imagination and some wishful thinking.

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/04/2013 21:47

Cote, indeed it is a funny term, but not one that I have used. I didn't describe the dream as valid, I described her experience as as valid as yours. Many people have some dreams that more significant to them than other dreams. It's not unusual. Just because you haven't had this experience doesn't mean that other people haven't.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps · 07/04/2013 22:01

cote and pedro its obvious you haven't experienced this either, shame that, we might have actually found something to share.

How extraordinarily rude to suggest that I have not experienced the same kinds of things that anyone else on this thread has. I have vivid dreams, I've heard things and seen things I couldn't explain, I'm simply not naive enough to think that there was something going on which was supernatural.

I get that people want to believe that their loved ones are still with them and that makes them desperately hold on to these experiences because it makes them feel better. Well sorry, I take great comfort in the knowledge that life happens and it finishes and we aren't left floating around in the afterlife trying to convince the living that we're still around by ambiguously appearing in weird, bizarre ways.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2013 22:01

Maybe they just haven't come to talk to you yet Cote. :) just be ause you haven't experienced something doesn't mean it's not possible.

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2013 22:02

The difference is pedro, I don't see anyone trying to convince you that your beliefs are wrong...

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/04/2013 22:06

Pedro, I am glad that your beliefs bring you comfort.Smile What I don't understand is why you seek to dismiss a different belief that does the same for someone else. Particularly in this instance where no trickery or exploitation were involved.

CoteDAzur · 07/04/2013 22:08

bumbley - If it were just me who doesn't get visits from dead relatives, I would agree with you.

You must know at some level that dead people don't come back to talk to anyone in dreams.

PedroPonyLikesCrisps · 07/04/2013 22:15

The difference is pedro, I don't see anyone trying to convince you that your beliefs are wrong...

I was told that I hadn't experienced the same things. This is a stupid argument. You have no idea what I have experienced. And it's always the same, because you've experienced it and that means you know dead people turn up in your bed at night, that means that because I don't 'know' this happens means that I obviously haven't experienced the same things. Grow up and realise that this is is arrogant, rude, selfish and ignorant.

Twosugarsplease · 07/04/2013 22:15

Thanks dione and bumbley
Yes cote I'm an adult, why does that baffle you ?

bumbleymummy · 07/04/2013 22:26

Two sugars isn't the only person who has felt 'visited' in dreams, you aren't the only person who hasn't - doesn't prove anything.

Twosugarsplease · 07/04/2013 22:36

pedro if you have had an experience, then share it with us.

I do not believe my late df us sat on my bed at all, to me it's all about connecting in an unconscious state, I believe the best way as I'm completely relaxed.

You seem to think I am actually seeing my late df in my daily life.
I am not it is occasionally in a state of complete relax, sleep, where I believe I am more receptacle.

Just a thought, do you not actually think that dreams alone are quite amazing ? Just think about it.

Twosugarsplease · 07/04/2013 22:46

Blush spell checks, like my brain, my I phone key pad is so annoyingly bloody tiny Grin

Sunnywithshowers · 07/04/2013 22:50

I'm not the least bit woo, but I love dreams and think they're amazing. I often have incredibly vivid and colourful dreams.

I had a lovely dream about talking with my grandfather after he died. I had a less lovely one where I met my closest friend shortly after she died, and she didn't know she was dead. I kept thinking 'don't you know you're dead?', which I wonder is my unconscious trying to process my loss.

I once dreamt my brother had died and, for 10 minutes after I woke (middle of night), I thought he was still dead. I was howling until my 'rational' brain kicked in and reminded me that he was alive, there hadn't been a funeral... It was horrible and affected my mood for all of the next day.

sudaname · 07/04/2013 23:00

Sunny l had a dream in my twenties that l met my Uncle who took his own life when l was around ten and in the dream l asked him why he did it and he just kept chatting away to me and saying he was happy now etc. I finally pushed him for an answer and he started to give his answer then l woke up. Never happened since. But the dream was so vivid, it was like he really was stood in front of me exactly as he was before he died.

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/04/2013 23:04

Pedro now I am really confused. You say that it is stupid and rude to say that you have not had the same experience as Twosugars because no one knows what you have experienced. This is true. However I cannot see any of your posts where you claim to have had the same experience. Similar dreams, yes, but different experiences.

If no one knows what you experienced and for them to assume that they do makes them arrogant, rude, selfish and ignorant, can the same not be said of your comments on the experiences of others?Confused

EllieArroway · 07/04/2013 23:37

Anyone who has dreamt that a dead relative is talking to them has had the "same experience". If we're going down the road of saying "Well, it's only similar", you could say that about absolutely everything.

We've all experienced looking at trees - or have we? It's just a similar experience! Hmm There has to be some common ground otherwise conversations make no sense.

My mother died when I was 12. I've dreamt about her a lot. My son, who never met her, has dreamt about her. Once, coming out of an anaesthetic, I thought I could feel her holding my hand. When I was 16 or so, I experienced several instances of sleep paralysis, one of which caused me to literally see her standing at the end of the bed.

Might my mother have come back from the dead? Possibly - but given that a) that very eventuality would violate all the laws of physics, b) no evidence has ever been found that demonstrates people surviving death in any way and c) the massive amount of evidence showing that humans are highly suggestible and the mind plays tricks on us, I should think it extremely, extremely unlikely.

That's being rational about things. Of course, I could just say: "But I personally believe it was my mum, and you can't say different 'cos you weren't there" but I am not like that. Thankfully.

DioneTheDiabolist · 08/04/2013 00:14

That's not really true Ellie, people can have similar dreams about flying, yet their experience of those dreams can be different. One can find it liberating, another can find it frightening. Sometimes the same person can be frightened in one, exhilarated in another and meh about it in others.

The thing is, we are talking about dreams. They are absolutely unique to the dreamer. I am flabbergasted that anyone would rubbish another's dream and tell them what they should or shouldn't believe about it. I mean we're not talking about mediumship or psychics. We are talking about an individuals belief about something that happened when they were unconscious which brings them comfort. I am glad that Pedro's beliefs bring him comfort. I can't for the life if me imagine why he would argue the toss with someone whose beliefs regarding their dreams bring them comfort.Shock

EllieArroway · 08/04/2013 00:32

That's not really true Ellie, people can have similar dreams about flying, yet their experience of those dreams can be different. One can find it liberating, another can find it frightening. Sometimes the same person can be frightened in one, exhilarated in another and meh about it in others

Except that there's one thing that's common to all of those dreams - the dreamer is not really flying. Dreams are distinct from reality - this we know. We make that distinction all the time, but we abandon it entirely if we decide that we'd like to believe that it's saying something we want to hear - "My mother is visiting me", for example. This is not rational.

Surely it's not about whether people are comforted or not, you are missing Pedro's point, I think. It's whether it's true that dead people visit people via their dreams. That people feel comforted is nice, but neither here nor there in a discussion about whether or not it's true.

It is analogous with the idea that religion gives people hope. Well, OK. Doesn't make it true, though. What's true for one person is true for us all, if the word "true" has any meaning.

The difference is that my reasons for rejecting the idea that my mum visits me occasionally in my sleep is because I've taken ALL the available evidence into account. If I were to believe that she was, it could only be because I'd ignored that evidence. So the two positions are not equal.

DioneTheDiabolist · 08/04/2013 00:53

If this was the Science section, I would totally agree with you Ellie, but it's not. This is Religion, Philosophy and Spirituality. This is the place to discuss beliefs and thoughts. One poster believes a certain thing about some of their dreams. Another doesn't. Neither can prove what is or isn't true in this case. If you are seeking proof, you are in the wrong forum.

EllieArroway · 08/04/2013 01:16

Then why are you talking about science (wrongly) on another thread in this section, then, Dione? It's entirely relevant if you think it supports the woo but not when it doesn't?

The hypocrisy does not surprise me.

DioneTheDiabolist · 08/04/2013 01:21

Once again Ellie, if you have something to say about a post on another thread, please post about it there. It's bad form to take it to other threads (see the MN Talk Guidelines if you are unclear).Hmm

EllieArroway · 08/04/2013 01:27

It's not irrelevant, Dione. We are discussing the relevance of content in the Philosophy section - this is the philosophy section. See above.

But try to sound superior while you're trying to worm your way out of your mistake. That's perfectly fine. I see it all the time.

Night Grin

SolidGoldBrass · 08/04/2013 01:42

There are always a load of explanations for 'unexplained' events that are infinitely more plausible than 'Woo, it's a ghost.'

It's usually:
Hallucination/active imagination
Mechanical malfunction (the Haunted Shower just sprung a bit of a leak FFS)
Animal activity (if you don't have official pets, it's mice or birds or possibly squirrels)
Human activity (someone is playing a prank on you, either because your gullibility amuses them or because s/he is a rather spiteful individual).

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